CV19 restrictions on boat on private mooring

Old Bumbulum said:
Right. Easy enough in Italy and France where they have plenty of police...
Who's going to enforce anything here?
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People need to enforce it them self , if they did that there be no need for any new laws , the thing is people want to carry on as normally , you just have to read what's being posted on ybw and other site , and what we have just now isn't normal times .
 
Old Bumbulum said:
Right. Easy enough in Italy and France where they have plenty of police...
Who's going to enforce anything here?
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It will be difficult for the first few days but after the first few thousand Fixed penalty tickets have been given out I think most people become surprisingly compliant. Then there will be very few people out who continue to break the law and these can be more easily targeted. Will also drastically reduce the pressure on Police and other emergency services as few will be out and about. As Duncan says you just need to make the law very clear with little or no wriggle room
I am not making a comment about whether this is a good or bad idea but it certainly can be done and enforced
 
Goodness. There's loads of grief across UK and Europe. I've been longing to return home to my native Portsmouth but not so sure now.

As for the bloke who wants to go sailing, I'd say as long as you aren't going too far, go for it. If someone asks you it seems that your pet dolphin that you were exercising has escaped. Blame the person who is asking you and return to your mooring after saying that you will hold them to account for the loss of your beloved pet.
 
sailaboutvic said:
Best quote I see so far , I had to laugh, us brits jump to rules that's why we have so many problem with the EU ,
How many times have we seen three on a motor bike or riders without helmets in the UK or perple smoking in bars and restaurants ...
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Never, that I can remember. Perhaps we know different bits of Britain.

So to see the Italian and other European doing everything being ask of them regarding the virus say how serious people are taken the problem.
It seen only back home we think that keeping a upper stiff lip going to make everything ok .
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We should be awake to the possibility that the Italians are doing something very wrong or, alternatively, that there is something very different about the Italian situation which may require a very different response. As of two minutes ago

Italy: 35,713 cases, 2,978 deaths. 8.3% dead.

Germany: 12,343 cases, 28 deaths. 0.23% dead
 
JumbleDuck said:
Never, that I can remember. Perhaps we know different bits of Britain.



We should be awake to the possibility that the Italians are doing something very wrong or, alternatively, that there is something very different about the Italian situation which may require a very different response. As of two minutes ago

Italy: 35,713 cases, 2,978 deaths. 8.3% dead.

Germany: 12,343 cases, 28 deaths. 0.23% dead
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You can't just look at those numbers in isolation though without knowing exactly what they represent. I suspect most of the differences in reported cases between countries are due to the differences in their testing regimes...
 
V1701 said:
You can't just look at those numbers in isolation though without knowing exactly what they represent. I suspect most of the differences in reported cases between countries are due to the differences in their testing regimes...
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Agree and also worth pointing out we are now where Italy was 2 weeks ago and Spain a week ago and catching up fast in terms of recorded cases. Not so long ago we were 4 weeks behind Italy. I suspect with the measures Italy and Spain have put in they will start to slow and at the moment I am not sure about that with the more limited/voluntary measures the UK have put in place
 
jordanbasset said:
Agree and also worth pointing out we are now where Italy was 2 weeks ago and Spain a week ago and catching up fast in terms of recorded cases. Not so long ago we were 4 weeks behind Italy. I suspect with the measures Italy and Spain have put in they will start to slow and at the moment I am not sure about that with the more limited/voluntary measures the UK have put in place
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Absolutely, I'm sorry to say that I think we are going to be very shocked by how much and how quickly the numbers start to rise here...
 
V1701 said:
You can't just look at those numbers in isolation though without knowing exactly what they represent. I suspect most of the differences in reported cases between countries are due to the differences in their testing regimes...
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Of course, but that means that the Italian numbers shouldn't be taken in isolation either. There may be other factors - genetic? demographic? social? - there which cause a higher infection and or death rate. The concentration of cases so that some hospitals are overwhelmed and other barely affected will have an effect as well.

I agree completely about the difficulty in assessing the number of cases. Alas only dead bodies are unarguably countable.
 
wallacebob said:
I’m in Spain just now, basic rules are you cannot leave your home, except: go to work, get food, get medicine. While you’re out you can buy fuel. This morning I was stopped by local police on way to shop; all very polite, but “go straight back home when you’re done” This makes it easy for authorities to apply the rules. Although sports, leisure, etc are prohibited it makes enforcement easier to have a “stay at home rule” in place. So, no visiting anyone or sightseeing or “but I was only.......” . UK must introduce similar measures in next week; Forget sailing this summer in UK. This is more serious.
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Yes that’s the reality in Spain
 
JumbleDuck said:
I agree completely about the difficulty in assessing the number of cases. Alas only dead bodies are unarguably countable.
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Leaving aside the actual problems of determining permanent death, the main problem is determining the primary cause. As is said ad nauseam (if that is the right expression!), most attributable deaths still have multiple causes. Maybe the cause has to be > 50% Covid19 before it counts? How to measure that?

Mike.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
Do you want hyperventilating joggers running past you at a distance of 50cm? I don't ;)
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You clearly don't run. Moreover I'll take a punt you don't live in one room in a shared house either. For my head to be 50cm from yours I'd have to have my shoulders touching you. That does not happen when you're running. Current government advice that going out for a walk in the open air is fine and you have no evidence that running past someone for a fraction of a second is any significant risk. Pulmonary and cardio-vascular health are risk factors with COVID-19: you can argue that we have a duty to stay healthy even if we overlook the fact that some people rely on exercise to maintain mental health. Sailing where it's done with family members or solo and not requiring public transport to get to the boat falls into the same category.

By contrast, no-one can get online deliveries. Everyone still needs to go shopping (regularly because item limit restrictions) where they're crammed in inside with others. Seriously: running past someone on the golf course or cycling to your boat on a swinging mooring adds appreciably to the risk fo transmission from the bunfight in Tesco? I don't think so.

So let's have a reality check rather than rushing to declare our social conscience regardless of government advice or actual facts. Start imposing non-sensical restrictions and people will start ignoring the sensible ones
 
laika said:
You clearly don't run. Moreover I'll take a punt you don't live in one room in a shared house either. For my head to be 50cm from yours I'd have to have my shoulders touching you. That does not happen when you're running. Current government advice that going out for a walk in the open air is fine and you have no evidence that running past someone for a fraction of a second is any significant risk. Pulmonary and cardio-vascular health are risk factors with COVID-19: you can argue that we have a duty to stay healthy even if we overlook the fact that some people rely on exercise to maintain mental health. Sailing where it's done with family members or solo and not requiring public transport to get to the boat falls into the same category.

By contrast, no-one can get online deliveries. Everyone still needs to go shopping (regularly because item limit restrictions) where they're crammed in inside with others. Seriously: running past someone on the golf course or cycling to your boat on a swinging mooring adds appreciably to the risk fo transmission from the bunfight in Tesco? I don't think so.

So let's have a reality check rather than rushing to declare our social conscience regardless of government advice or actual facts. Start imposing non-sensical restrictions and people will start ignoring the sensible ones
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No, I cycle, but there are joggers galore along the lake where I live .... all types from the super-fit racing snakes to the grossly overweight, coughing and wheezing their way along the footpaths. All regularly spitting and wiping their running noses on their sleeves. The 50cm was hyperbole, hence the winkie - not intended to be taken literally - I think the spitting is pretty disgusting at the best of times, but now it's a biohazard - especially if the fit are asymptomatic carriers.

But none of that is the point - I've no doubt you and almost all others on this forum are more than capable of taking precations - it's the idiots that just intend to carry on as normal who will be the reason for the eventual lockdown and curfew.
 
mjcoon said:
Leaving aside the actual problems of determining permanent death, the main problem is determining the primary cause. As is said ad nauseam (if that is the right expression!), most attributable deaths still have multiple causes. Maybe the cause has to be > 50% Covid19 before it counts? How to measure that?
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I was reading with interest that SARS turned out to be a lot more deadly than was tough of the time, because a lot of minor cases were actually false positive diagnoses. With those eliminated but the number of deaths the same, the mortality rate shot up. On the other hand, it looks as if Spanish Flue was not as deadly as thought at the time because a lot of people died from pneumonia rather than flu itself.

Conclusions: 1. This stuff is tricky and 2. Epidemiologists will be writing papers about COVID-19 for decades.
 
Baggywrinkle said:
But none of that is the point - I've no doubt you and almost all others on this forum are more than capable of taking precations - it's the idiots that just intend to carry on as normal who will be the reason for the eventual lockdown and curfew.
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It depends on how many of them there are. My guess - based on people I know - is that members of the high risk groups will very effectively isolate themselves and if that happens a certain amount of business as usual won't matter too much, as long as the results don't overwhelm the NHS.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Perhaps, although it's very hard to see how much harm it could do.
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My rough translation of what Macron said when he banned the use of boats for pleasure is firstly you could tie up already stretched resources if you get into trouble and then possibly take up a much-needed hospital bed.

With no stats at hand of how many trips out end up in a rescue I can see some logic.

However if I was King for a day I'd say "go out but don't expect help if you need it" but that would be a low priority when compared to other rulings I'd make :cool:
 
JumbleDuck said:
If it helps, on an average day 2000 Italians die (60.5m people, 82.5 year life expectancy). Clearly another 350 deaths per days is a Very Bad Thing, but it's not the Ukrainian Famine. In Hubei Province they manage to arrest the disease after 1 in 700 got it badly enough to need medical attention and 1 in 30 of those died.

It may well turn out that draconian action is not necessarily sensible action.
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JD, you point out that they have managed to stop the disease in Hubei, but then you have to recognise that nowhere in the world the measures taken are as strict as in Hubei. Wuhan is still in lockdown

It may well turn out that draconian action is simply necessary
 
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