Cutter rig

Porthandbuoy

Porthandbuoy

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Some advice please fellow forumites. Let's assume I'm going to add a bowsprit to Mariposa and turn her into a bermudan cutter. Do I:-

a) Leave the existing forestay running from stemhead to masthead and run a second stay from bowsprit end to masthead with Wykeham-Martin gear inboard of that, or,

b) Leave the existing stay from stemhead to masthead and just have the W/M gear from bowsprit end to masthead, or,

c) Remove the existing forestay and run one from stemhead to where the lower shrouds are attached and fit a new stay from bowsprit end to masthead with W/M gear inboard of that, or,

d) Remove the existing forestay and run one from stemhead to where the lower shrouds are attached but with just the W/M gear from the end of the bowsprit and no stay?

Options 'a' and 'b' give me a bit more sail area, while 'c' and 'd' give me two headsails with parallel luffs, which is more aesthetically appealing methinks.
 
Not sure about parallel luffs are more aesthetic, in the eye of the beholder. BUT you cant just add a bowsprit. Sail balance has to be considered. If you dont alter the position of the mast or increase the mainsail area or get the centre of pressure of the mainsail aft,,, methinks you will end up with lee helm. However if Mariposa suffers from weather helm then sprit is good idea.
 
Been there, done almost that thing...

Mytica was same size as Mariposa and was rigged as a 3/4 Bermudian sloop.

My father and I added a bowsprit but we went the whole hog and replaced the bermudian mainsail with a gaff one, so there were certain differences.

I'm getting the impression that Mariposa has a masthead rig, but that is unusual for Hillyard 2 1/2 tonners. Am I right?

Anyway, I reckon that a bowsprit with no stay to the end of it looks odd, so I would run a light topmast stay from the masthead to the end of the bowsprit. This stay serves no useful purpose except to get tangled up in the W/M gear, but its sort of aesthetically necessary! You can hank a ghoster on it, of course. If you have a standing backstay, which is a good idea with Bermudian rig, then the topmast forestay does a useful job of work in counter balancing that.

I would run the stemhead stay/inner forestay to a lower point on the mast and the obvious place for it is the point where the lower shrouds, which probably lead a bit aft, join the mast .

So, this is a vote for "c".
 
I'm having a new mainsail, cut a bit longer in the foot with a tad more roach. That will (should) compensate for the additional leverage up front.
At the moment she's not badly balanced with the small jib up, just slow, but is a bit hard headed with the bigger, overlapping, genoa. As I'm not too keen on the foredeck gymnastics involved in swapping them over I though W/M gear on the end of a bowsprit would allow me to roll the jib away leaving me a nice working headsail.
If balance is still a problem I can always shift some ballast forward. ( I need to do that anyway as she's trimmed level with no-one in the cockpit).

Unrelated, but interesting anyway, Mariposa draws a good 2" more since her launch in July. I think her planking must've taken up. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Been there, done almost that thing...

Yep, masthead rig with mast forward of coachroof. Boom 11' long almost reaches the transom. No spreaders! Aft lowers are swept back and will provide support for a stay at that point.

Hadn't forgotten about bobstay and whisker shrouds.

P.S. Backstay is attached to a bumpkin off the stern.
 
Re: Been there, done almost that thing...

Try to avoid the bowsprit shrouds if you can, they are a pain in the neck when handling the anchor. You can get a 3-4ft bowsprit without them, possibly quite a bit longer - Bristol Channel pilot cutters did without them!

The bobstay is essential, though.

Again, it can be a pain in the neck when on the mooring unless you do the old gafferish trick of having a tackle on it and tricing it up. If it is permanent a length of tough hose over the chain is a good way of minimising the chafe and the scraping noise at anchor.

Spreaders are quite a good idea, and can be very simple. There is no need for posh sockets; a couple of brass strips passing round the mast (under the track) but not screwed into the mast (bolted up on a strip of leather) do fine. They should bisect the angle of the shrouds.

I certainly agree with the W/M gear on the jib. Besides the genoa, a Yankee shaped jib set over a staysail on the inner stay is a good way of getting to windward. It is easy to swap over rolled sails.
 
Re: Been there, done almost that thing...

[ QUOTE ]
It is easy to swap over rolled sails.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gulp! That would mean hauling the W/M gear out on a traveller. I wasn't thinking of doing that. Defeats the whole purpose IMHO.
 
Re: Been there, done almost that thing...

Is it not possible with mast rake, reduced maisail area ease the weather helm,bowsrits are just another complication.
 
Re: Been there, done almost that thing...

Complicated = interesting.
If the mast were round, and the boom a tad shorter, I'd add a mizen and turn her into a cutter headed gaff yawl with jackyard topsail, mizen staysail and watersails. All those lovely bits of string to pull plus the look of terror on everyone elses face as you glide into a crowded anchorage; bliss, sheer bliss.

Seriously though. Hillyards aren't famed for their generous sail area. The thought of reducing mine still further makes me shudder. On the other hand, come the day I'm caught out in a rising 6 I might just rue these words.
 
I used to have a 2.5 ton Hillyard although it was the earlier pre-war shape with a 3/4 sloop rig.

A friend also had a 2.5 ton Hillyard of the same period but re-rigged as a gaff cutter. Mine generally went faster, until the gaffer was rerigged as a sloop as well, after which I had to try a lot harder to keep ahead. I think the boat didn't really have a big enough foretriangle for two head sails to work properly.

Agree that you certainly don't want less sail area!
 
In an old issue of the R.C.C book there is an account of one of the members making a summer cruise round Brittany in his 2 1/2 TONNER, no bowsprit but he did resort to his Stuart Turner!
 
Been there, done that thing...

3/4 rigged 2 1/2 tonner (not a Hillyard, an illegitimate Harrison Butler "Paida") to gaff cutter with jackyard topsail.

Went far better afterwards; in the end, we even ditched the Stuart Turner.
 
Re: Been there, done that thing...

Terrific! Bet there wasn't a lot of deck space left with all them cleats littering the place.

Do I detect a degree of antipathy towards Stuart Turner engines? Mine seems to work very well thank you . . . as long as Mariposa's on an even keel, otherwise the carb float sticks.

I have a theory their notoriety stems from the days of leaded petrol and "any old oil" in the mix. With today's unleaded petrol you don't get that whisker of lead bridging the plug gap (the sudden stop), and the modern 2-stroke oils burn cleanly and even claim to be biodegradable (no fouled plugs, fish or ducks).
 
Not the engine itself

I think they are very well designed and made, as witness their amazing longevity.

The boat had been built without an engine, and the propeller cut out was in the rudder not the deadwood. This was certainly a mistake and had a terrible effect on her steering. I believe that she now has the Stuart back.
 
Re: Not the engine itself

I had a little Stuart Turner in a Mashford 4 tonner ,even with my engineering skills it ran like a sewing machine,the only engine that I have had empathy with!
 
Re: Been there, done almost that thing...

Andy,

Where is Mariposa now?
Hillyards are few and far between in the Clyde so it might be interesting to note-swap.
I had toyed with the idea of more sail area up front as the weather-helm can be arm-wrenching if I don't reef early. The problem is if I reef she slows right down.
I would be interested in your progress.
 
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