Cutter rig, self-tacking staysail query

Gordonmc

Gordonmc

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What is the normal set-up for a topping lift for a self tacking staysail on a cutter ketch?
I only have one block on the main mast, about two-thirds up the mast which I have used for the staysail halyard.
Obviously the with staysail set the boom will be pulled to the horizontal but I can't see what holds up the staysail boom when the sail is furled. There is no sign of a boom cradle.
Spinaker halyard?
Any ideas?
 
I have used a short tail that was attached to a cleat on the mast. The tail had a hook on the end and was just clipped to the boom. This was with a hanked on sail.

The rope was loose and we just made it off on the mast, hooked it on and dropped the sail. The boat was a 72' ketch so the stay sail boom was heavy.
 
I use a line to the mast, or the staysail halyard if want it higher.

Does yours have roller furling, as this doesn't make it quite so straight forward?
 
I have a dedicated topping lift running inside the mast and exiting through a hole near to the other halyards etc. It's secured to a cleat on the mast. My staysail is hanked on. When the sail is dropped I tie it with sail ties onto its boom and put its sail cover on. The end of the boom is fixed in space by the topping lift and its 2 sheet blocks on the deck,conveniently all spaced at about 120 degrees.
 
Boom support

Without seeing it I think I would go for a block on the deck for the boom to sit on. I have just a simple sloop but now drop the boom onto the cabin top. This minimises the swinginng sideways of the boom in a wave or wash. The swinging eventually wore out the sheet traveller car. I reckon you would be safer and quieter with boom lashed down not swinging on a rope. good luck olewill
 
Resurecting an old thread - but with reason.

I have a cutter which currently has a hanked on staysail with a club boom. This is a bit of a faff to set - take the cover off, sail ties, raise the sail at the mast, tighten the outhaul, drop the track stops down the cross-ship track, sheet the sail, sit down have a beer. There is also the topping lift to fiddle with. Dropping is similarly tedious so a plan is in hand to fit a roller gear.

This could be done with the club boom in place - the outhaul could become the outhaul for the roller furled sail and I would need to add a furling line but fitting the furler over the boom gooseneck would reduce the size of the sail and make fitting the drum etc problematic.

The question is therefore if anyone has experience of such a set up - a roller furled staysail to a single track? I can imagine that off the wind it will be difficult or impossible to get the sail to set and draw in any way - but off the wind the staysail (well mine anyway) provides very little drive anyway.

(The boat is a Dockrell 37 - hands up anyone who has ever seen one?)
 
Relax said:
Resurecting an old thread - but with reason.

I have a cutter which currently has a hanked on staysail with a club boom. This is a bit of a faff to set - take the cover off, sail ties, raise the sail at the mast, tighten the outhaul, drop the track stops down the cross-ship track, sheet the sail, sit down have a beer. There is also the topping lift to fiddle with. Dropping is similarly tedious so a plan is in hand to fit a roller gear.

This could be done with the club boom in place - the outhaul could become the outhaul for the roller furled sail and I would need to add a furling line but fitting the furler over the boom gooseneck would reduce the size of the sail and make fitting the drum etc problematic.

The question is therefore if anyone has experience of such a set up - a roller furled staysail to a single track? I can imagine that off the wind it will be difficult or impossible to get the sail to set and draw in any way - but off the wind the staysail (well mine anyway) provides very little drive anyway.

(The boat is a Dockrell 37 - hands up anyone who has ever seen one?)
Click to expand...

Hi, our boat was designed around the Hoyt boom system. It works very well but is not easy to retro fit.One sheet,one haliard,one outhaul,one furling line. We find the staysail is normaly in use as the friction between the genoa and a furled staysail makes it very difficult to tack. If it is a one tack passage we may leave it furled,but not often.
 
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Relax said:
Resurecting an old thread - but with reason.

I have a cutter which currently has a hanked on staysail with a club boom. This is a bit of a faff to set - take the cover off, sail ties, raise the sail at the mast, tighten the outhaul, drop the track stops down the cross-ship track, sheet the sail, sit down have a beer. There is also the topping lift to fiddle with. Dropping is similarly tedious so a plan is in hand to fit a roller gear.

This could be done with the club boom in place - the outhaul could become the outhaul for the roller furled sail and I would need to add a furling line but fitting the furler over the boom gooseneck would reduce the size of the sail and make fitting the drum etc problematic.

The question is therefore if anyone has experience of such a set up - a roller furled staysail to a single track? I can imagine that off the wind it will be difficult or impossible to get the sail to set and draw in any way - but off the wind the staysail (well mine anyway) provides very little drive anyway.

(The boat is a Dockrell 37 - hands up anyone who has ever seen one?)
Click to expand...

I would suggest that the furler be fitted at the bottom of the inner forestay and bottom of the stay sail as low as possible. ie take the gooseneck for the boom off. Mount the gooseneck onto the deck or some suitable post behind the furled jib. Yes it will provide some non linearity of outhaul tension from boom out to boom in but this will allow full sized jib with furl drum down low. good luck olewill
 
William_H said:
I would suggest that the furler be fitted at the bottom of the inner forestay and bottom of the stay sail as low as possible. ie take the gooseneck for the boom off. Mount the gooseneck onto the deck or some suitable post behind the furled jib. Yes it will provide some non linearity of outhaul tension from boom out to boom in but this will allow full sized jib with furl drum down low. good luck olewill
Click to expand...

To be honest I was hoping to get rid of the boom if at all possible - it takes up a load of room on the foredeck, causes a lot of hassle getting the sail up and down and according to the limited research I have done can be a bit of a liability in really heavy weather - thrashing about like a weapon when the sail is not pulling.

I guess my real question was whether not not the staysail would work with the current (cross ships) track arrangement - or if I need to go making more holes in the deck?
 
Bpoom on a staysail

There are several types of trailer sailer with a self tacking jib that operates on a traveller or track system across the foredeck. I would think you need more space between the jib clew and the mast to get correct sheeting pull. ie aft and down. The sails seem to work well on the wind. However off the wind it is difficult to get the sail to set correctly. The boom on the other hand can get a jib to set really well right out to wind from behind by keeping the sail firstly set at correct tensions to make it flat with an airfoil curve and secondly to allow the sail to beset at a correct angle. ie just like a mainsail.
Any jib (without a boom) must have the correct sheeting position. ie correct pull aft to flatten th bottom and the correct amount of pull down to get the leach tight and the top of the sail held up against the wind. Then also the sheeting angle ie the angle of sail related to c/l of boat must be correct to minimise heeling or get best tacking angle. All this changes when the boat is off the wind so is quite difficult to get right. Many people just don't bother on an ordinary jib. On self tacking these adjustments need to be portable via the traveller to each side for each tack. So even more difficult to get right. Whiule a jib on a boom is much more easily adjusted just like mainsail.
So yes you can run your staysail in the same way as a self tacking jib on a smaller boat but you must decide what your priorities are regarding getting rid of the boom versus getting the most out of the sail.
I think I would prefer a boom. good luck olewill
 
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