Cutter rig questions

Koeketiene

Koeketiene

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- What are the advantages / disadvantages of a cutter compared to a sloop rigged boat?
- How do you cope with a cutter rig single/short handed? (tacking & gybing)
- Why would / wouldn't you recommend a cutter rig?

One possible "new" boat comes with cutter rig

Thanks
 
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What are the advantages / disadvantages of a cutter compared to a sloop rigged boat?
- How do you cope with a cutter rig single/short handed? (tacking & gybing)

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The total sail area is divided more or less equally between main and headsails. You can have more flexibilty with headsail area by having more sails available.
Tacking/gybing is done by having the staysail on a boom so that it becomes "self-tacking".
Heaving-to with that sort of staysail arrangement becomes very easy in heavy weather with no need for any mainsail area to be set.
Recommended for blue water cruising
 
For:
As you progressively reef the centre of effort moves inboard.
Staysail can be made self tacking. But beware when heaving to that you can lock the self tacking arrangement or it will simply keep tacking!
Smaller sail area per sail - less important with modern fabric and gear.
Against:
Complication.
Inner forestay restricts the genoa when tacking, in light air you might have to walk it round.

In my opinion a detachable inner forestay is the best of all worlds.
 
in light airs, such a rig is less good than a big genoa.

in medium weather, OK. The staysail "slots" the wind into the main. Wind aft the beam and the staysail might as well come down.

in heavy weather, the staysail on its own will provide a robust and better balanced rig with double/triple reefed main.

for single handed sailing, the foresail (yankee etc) being smaller is much easier to handle. If you don't set the staysail you might find the balance of the boat upset a little.

all the above relates to the way a particular boat handles ....
 
We have a curtter rig on our Seal 28 and are seriously considering removing it and going back to plain old sloop rig.

When short-handed I furl the staysail before tacking but then the jib still often gets snagged on the staysail as I tack.

We haven't experienced using it in heavy weather but I have heard it has advantages.

Staysail angle is critical otherwise you just disturb the slot between jib and main.

IMHO not a good rig for a small short handed yacht ( dons flame-proof suit ... )
 
A cutter will never be quite as close-winded as a sloop. The inner forestay needs support, either runners or swept-back shrouds. Runners are a total pain, especially if short-handed.

A heavyweight staysail makes an good heavy weather sail though not ideal in storm conditions as it will be close to the deck and liable to collect green water coming over the deck.
 
OOh..... A bit of a generalisation here I think Leopard! While I presently sail a cat, I have owned a heavy Gaff rigged pilot cutter in the past with a bowsprit of considerable proportions. Cutter rigged headsails can be sheeted very flat and the slot between them set up to give windward performance better than one ginormous sail that can never be sheeted as flat. Even on my cat, if I want to go to windward hard in heavy weather I use the inner foresail which is self tacking in front of the mast and therefore as flat as I like plus a heavily reefed genoa with a cunningham to pull it flat. I can't get a genoa flat enough sheeted to the genoa tracks with a beam of 16ft 4ins..... Lets modify the statement to say most well set up modern sloops don't NEED cutter rig to go close to wind, and if sailing with cutter rig one needs to set the sails well with respect to the slot to work well. On a heavy monohull to windward I would prefer cutter rig. However DOWNWIND is another matter. Here the genoa is superior in most cases as one headsail on a cutter rig blankets the other......
 
Thank you all for some most interesting observations - lots to think about.

1. Would a "heavy" (10T) deep keel (2.2m) 43ft-er closewinded performance be reduced/improved by having a cutter rig?
2. Is a selftacking staysail a must? If you don't go for a selftacking staysail - which sail would you tack first?
3. With wind past the beam would a kite/chute benefit from keeping the staysail up?
4. As for sail replacement costs: would a staysail/yankee combination cost more than a large genoa?

My apologies if these questions sound stupid - never sailed on a cutter rig before.
 
Possible answers to your questions depend to some degree on where you are going to sail, and average wind strengths.

I would always go for a cutter on a bigger boat, where the sail areas can be split. A well set up cutter is generally less of a handful than a big sloop when the wind gets up.

Self tacking staysails are OK, but add complexity, and one of the advantages of a simple hanked on staysail can be when changing down to a storm staysail, when changing is easier and there's less equipment that might jam or possibly fail.

With a chute there's probably little point in keeping the staysail up, as it would likely interfere with the set of the chute, although in the old days of the early IOR rule yachts blade staysails were sometimes flown, sometimes sheeted amidships to "back" when (inevitably) the boat tried to round up and broach.

The added complexity of the rig, plus two sails would likely mean more expensive.

But that's not the whole story. Most big sloops have a large area genoa, which will inevitably be hard work to tack and sheet, especially with a small crew. Another factor is that big genoas seldom roll up well, and put a lot of strain on the furling gear. Visibility is poor ahead with these sails, too.

A cutter might have a 110% overlap, high clewed foresail, like a cross between a yankee and a genoa, which will be far easier to tack, sheet, see under and will roll well. As the wind increases, progressively rolling this sail will bring the centre of effort inboard and make the boat easier to steer, too.

You can always carry a light weather sail for use in calms in any case.

Runners are a pain, but when not in use can be moved forward out of the way. They really come in to their own when the wind increases, though, and stiffen the rig up no end.

Jumper struts are an alternative, as can be seen on boats like the Warrior 40.

I reckon the cutter is a far better set up for most families, especially if you plan to go longer distances, or sail in higher latitudes.
 
My small Prout cat has the mast so far aft its a rather extreme example of a cutter, and works very well for cruising. (But then I am not interested in the last half knot as I usually reef to slow down for comfort at 6-7kn with wind forward of the beam and 8-10kn wind aft of beam).
On passage the staysail stays up and other sails are altered in area around it. My staysail is hanked on, and sheeted to a shackle on a simple rail ahead of the mast so self tacks. On a reach or run I may rig a light line to increase the sheet angle to avoid backwinding the lower part of the main.

If only going out for an hour or two I just unroll the genoa. The boat is easily handled and the only time I have missed stays is when I have had over enthusiastic monohull bred crew on the sheets. Occassionally, the sheets hook onto the inner stay when tacking in light winds, but only a problem going forward to flick it clear if its raining (I don't like getting wet, and have a sheltered cockpit).

If a boat is designed as a cutter the mast will probably be further aft than on a sloop, which makes for easier handling under headsail. The Prout's handling is reliable enough to tack and sail into a marina berth single handed under genoa.
 
1. Would a "heavy" (10T) deep keel (2.2m) 43ft-er closewinded performance be reduced/improved by having a cutter rig? Reduced. Many of the early Whitbread RTW boats were cutters, but it was discovered that they didn't go upwind as well as sloops so no more got built.

2. Is a selftacking staysail a must? If you don't go for a selftacking staysail - which sail would you tack first? No. Tack the yankee first.

3. With wind past the beam would a kite/chute benefit from keeping the staysail up. Probably not - too much turbulence affecting the kite.

4. As for sail replacement costs: would a staysail/yankee combination cost more than a large genoa?. Dunno.
 
4) having just gone and done it, the cost is likely to be less because the staysail is relatively little used and won't need replacing so often (pure laziness on my part & easier to sail single/short-handed without it and the sail is quite heavy).

If you do purchase a bigger foresail than, say, a high-cut yankee which has the clew higher off the deck than a 100%+ genoa, then tacking might become difficult as you struggle to get the sail over the baby stay

1) answer probably has to be reduced but if just slightly off close-hauled, as good as. There is a structural problem with cutter rigs which is keeping the forestay hard which just stops her going into the wind as well as she might. The forestay can end up with a curve and my theory is that the baby stay either holds the mast preventing it "moving" or that cutter rigs are (generally) masthead rigs and you can't quite get the leverage at the mast head needed to pull the forestay really taut as you could with a fractional rig ...

2) its never bothered me (not having one). The sail's pretty easy to handle.

3) don't know ...
 
I know many cutters that need to semi-furl the yankee to be able to tack, which clearly is not good for shorthanded sailing.

If you get a boat that comes with a cutter rig and do lots of tacking or sail in restricted waters I would change the inner forestay to make it removable. That way you can stow it for coastal sailing and only set it up for the long distance sailing.
 
I partially reef my yankee when tacking, ut it will blow through sometimes, if the wind is strong enough. My staysail is on a boom and self tacks, I use it a lot of the time when short handed, with main and mizzen, leave the yankee, as it's a big heavy sail. I agree, with the wind on or aft of the beam, take the stysl, down. I also have twin staysail stays, which allows me to use bigger staysails, hanked on and poled out as down wind sails, or just one and the yankee for downwind. Works for me. (The other "Stysl" is an old genoa from a smaller boat, [free] so almost twice the area of the proper "stysl")
 
In confined waters a cutter should be sailable under main and staysail to avoid the catching up of the jib sheets,that way the foredeck is clear for anchourungor just giving good vis .I think cutters should be desined from the hull up and not just created by adding an innerforestay.
 
A man after my own heart! In 1962 we crossed the Indian Ocean from Singapore to The Seychelles under twin fore staysails in a gaff schooner. One was the regular staysail, the other an adapted Firefly dinghy's main.
Once clear of the Sunda Straits all the other sails were put away for the best part of 4 weeks.
 
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But, a very important thing.......they look deliciously pretty!

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They do, don't they? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Guess more research to do. Would also like it to be practical.
Anyone with a cutter going out in the near future? Could I hitch a ride?
 
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