Customs & Excise Raid Newtown Creek!

[alant]

Beware if you have any 'duty free' on board in the Solent.

Thursday lunchtime in Newtown Creek - 'Knock, Knock' - Who's there? "Customs & Excise- who are you, where have you come from, where are you going, whos boat is it,etc,etc" This was from a RIB with 4 burlies on board - only one having any ID on his wooly hat. The 'Customs' sign on the RIB being hidden & no other ID offered.
Every boat in Newtown being similarly visited. Has the IOW suddenly opted out of the EEC & they suspect contraband?
What authority do these guys have? Can they simply board a vessel without 'good' cause?

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[bigmart]

The answer to the question at the end of your post is Yes!

Martin

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[oldharry]

I would have thought that if they are unable to produce any form of ID or other authority, then they have very little legal right to do anything intrusive within British territorial waters.

Unfortunately faced with 4 'burlies' insisting on boarding you, I would also think there is very little you can do about it.

But are we legally obliged to co-operate if they do not correctly identify themselves?

From what little I know of the powers Customs Officers have to stop and search, the answer is probably Yes.

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[wishbone]

Report out the other day suggest's that the EU arn't very happy with our boys in a funny shade of blue, they are victmising shoppers returning from france etc which they say is against free trade withing the EU. But Gordon wants his pound of flesh no matter what!!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>Wishbone
Rolling, rolling, rolling keep them doggies moving!
Where’s me chuck wagon gone?

 

[Robin]

I imagine this RIB was from one of the big customs boats that patrol the Channel rather than from a local office. These guys do not have a sense of humour and the best way to avoid your weekend being spoiled is to be pleasant and very cooperative. They have every right to be there, do not need any kind of warrant and can dismantle your boat in order to search it should they feel so inclined - they have no obligation to put it together again. The excise men have much greater powers than do the police. For them to be in Newtown Creek I would guess implies they were looking for something or some persons specific, rather than a just having a lucky dip for villains, unless they were just doing it so that word gets round of their presence, which I doubt.

Beware. These guys bite, they are not searching for booze and ciggies or for that matter Fray Bentos or Caulies it will be drugs and they will look everywhere if they think there is the slightest reason.

French Customs are no different. We have been boarded and searched 15mls north of Cherbourg in 'International Waters', they passed us in Cherbourg entrance as we left, they passed us again an hour later in mist and an hour later decided to stop and send the RIB over. Our passports were inspected and details radioed to Paris via the patrol boat for checking (SWMBO is on a USA passport). They read the ships log, checked the papers, poked in a few lockers and asked questions, all in all lasting 45 minutes, all very polite but believe me 4 armed heavies in a small cabin is intimidating.



<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[sailorman]

& we pay their wages in this free country.
wot limit on " E.U tax paid goods" mr brown

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[graham]

Personally I think its money well spent .Admittedly it is very intrusive on inoccent folk trying to enjoy a quiet weekend BUT if they catch the odd drug/gun/people smuggler then I am all for it.

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[oldgit]

Face the wall while the gentleman go bye my dear.

Enough for your own personal use,why would anyone have a problem with that.
The weekly 15 cwt white transit trip either means you floggin it or you have a serious drink problem.An afternoon spent observing the dock at Folkestone and noticing what drove off would give a clue as to why customs paid attention to that particular fast ferry.Living where we do,and knowing some of the local "entrepeneurs",Folkestone was the port of choice,until C&E started taking an interest.

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[graham]

Yes they can stop and search any vessel in British Waters.
Did you ask for ID from all of them .

Personally I would not wind them up but I would be surprised if they refused to show you any proof of identity.





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[Robin]

It\'s nothing new

Hear hear.

I was first stopped when taking the dog ashore late evening in Studland Bay in the early '70's, when you could go into Studland without PWCs spoling it. I was intercepted and politely questioned as to what boat I was from, where from, could I prove I had just come from Poole not overseas etc etc. Since then I have been visited entering the harbour many times in the days of Q flags, they got to know us quite well as SWMBO needed her USA passport stamped each time in those days out and inbound. We have also been visited in ports all along the South Coast, Weymouth, Dartmouth Salcombe, Plymouth, Fowey, Falmouth and Helford, all over more than 30 years though. However, and this is a BIG however, the Customs Officers in those days were mostly local officials and not the specialist 'Rummage Squad' ones from the big boats - these are a different animal IMO, courtesy and respect is the best plan and they will reciprocate but as I said they don't have a sense of humour about their given task. We have been visited just as often at anchorages and in harbours in France, if you are out and about a lot it is going to happen sooner or later.

Personally I like to see them out there I would be more concerned if I didn't see where my tax money went and I could imagine Twister loads of drugs and dirty bombs disguised as Fray Bentos getting ashore.


<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Get used to it

This is the new face of a security aware nation.

Firstly HM Customs have powers that would make Draco salivate. You may find that they will not show you any personal identification. This is sanctioned to prevent reprisals. They should be in a marked boat and will be able to confirm that they are Customs men. They will have come from a Customs Cutter.

They are not generally to savage. We helped them with a training excercise and they were in a good humour.

It's best to be polite. If they remove anything ask for a receipt. It's not your booze they're after.

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[Mudplugger]

Re: Get used to it

Robin, whils't in general agreement with your comments, could make the point that if they rummage you and fail to find any incriminating product, they are then liable to repair/ replace any damage caused. On a personal point, having been the subject of two attempted night boardings, on both occasions informed local CG, via 16, that we had a Rib alongside, shining lights that did not allow us to identify them...both attempts were suddenly aborted...and was then called on VHF for details of trip etc.(inbound from Imueden). I think if identification is not easy, then notifying CG at least is indicative of your bona-fides. Regards Tony W.

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[Clive_Rigden]

Re: It\'s nothing new

Quite right! H.M. Customs and Excise are officers of the Queen and not subject to the normal rules and constraints of the civil authorities for very good reason. IMHO their behaviour reflects that which is accorded to them and I'm afraid that in my experience over forty years of sailing is that many raggies & mobos have increasingly become overbearing in their self-importance and voluble in its expression. H.M. customs & Excise, unlike the village bobby, is not there to drive (or sail) one home from the pub when one's had a basin too many.

Hurrumph !

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[TheBoatman]

<<<What authority do these guys have? Can they simply board a vessel without 'good' cause? >>>

These guys as you put it have more authority than the police when it comes to boarding vessels or gaining entry to your house, They don't need a warrant whereas the police do.


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[jimi]

But presumably they do need to identify themselves ... or it could be anybody

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[Robin]

Re: Get used to it

You may well be right Tony but good luck doing so in practice I suspect, I would prefer to avoid making them feel a need to tear my boat apart. Phrases like 'YES SIR', 'NO SIR' and 'HOW HIGH SHOULD I JUMP SIR?' come to mind and I can be one stroppy s.o.b. otherwise!

I'm not sure how I would react to the night time at sea boarding you had. We have once been half blinded by a big searchlight but from their big boat not a RIB and they went off as quick as they came, no VHF contact either. We have also been buzzed by a French helicopter marked 'Doanes', but in daylight and they eventually went away, no VHF contact and I didn't call them.

We were boarded at 0700 one morning whilst we were still asleep by 4 armed French Customs men. We were anchored off Belle Isle in a bay with some local boats on moorings but we were the lone visitor, they arrived from around a headland by big RIB. No problem, very polite and when I asked they gave me a 'fiche' to show we had been visited and were 'OK'. The following year in the same quiet anchorage I was woken up by some inconsiderate twit tearing around with a big wash, next thing there they are in the cockpit. When I showed them our registration papers the 'fiche' was still there from the previous year, and they said oh look we saw you here last year - yes said I what a coincidence (my comment about it being the same f%%%%%g stupid time of the morning was not very loud, it might have been telepathic even...).


All this sounds like it happens every day but it doesn't this is over 30 or more years, but they are there.

Robin

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[TheBoatman]

Jimi
Everytime I've been boarded they've come from a rib or larger customs boat that is obviously HMC & E but they have never offered formal identification in the form of an ID card.
Interestingly, if they board you and start to tear (rumage) the boat apart, as the skipper who has responsibility for the vessel and all the persons onboard which now would include them can they just do what they like and take away your responsibilities?

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[alant]

Re: It\'s nothing new

"H.M. customs & Excise, unlike the village bobby, is not there to drive (or sail) one home from the pub when one's had a basin too many" - what on earth does this mean?

"H.M. Customs and Excise are officers of the Queen and not subject to the normal rules and constraints of the civil authorities for very good reason." - exactly what reason?
I expect them to abide by the same laws as the rest of the populus.
If nothing else, a "village bobby" has a legal mandate that we all recognise & support. We know exactly what powers his warrant (Also an officer of the Queen) allows him. Why are we kept in 'fear' about these 'draconian powers' these C&E seem to have? We dont fear the village bobby.

Regarding "odd drug/gun/people smuggler", what is their success rate, which supports these draconian powers, or is their attitude evidence of failure frustration. The drugs/guns crime rate currently is hardly evidence that their methods are working. I still expect to be treated with courtesy & civility from any 'officer of the Queen', with some sort of explanation. Surely, unless they have 'reasonable' grounds for their actions that could stand up under the same PACE rules that our village bobby operates, they will continue to operate without the full support and respect of many.

Are you really in agreement with a 'Gordon Brown Private Security Collection of Duties Force', which is what they appear to be to most people? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Britain was still a free country the last time I checked, a freedom previous (& current) generations sacrificed themselves fighting for, particularly against bully-boy regimes - also with unlimited powers legalised by the state.
This freedom even & rightly resulting in the " many raggies & mobos have increasingly become overbearing in their self-importance and voluble in its expression." or do you really want to live in a country denying freedom of expression, just in case we get a knock-knock.

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[Robin]

Re: It\'s nothing new

Alan

I don't think many people would argue with much of that line of thought either. But and it is a BIG but, being boarded at sea or indeed in harbour is not a wise time to start campaigning for your rights IMO, better to do that entirely separately if you feel that strongly.

This shouldn't be confused either with C & E's activities against the booze cruisers, that is an entirely different thing. Their draconian powers have been seen with the confiscation of cars, vans and goods and there are a number of people challenging that power not least with EU backing.

Back afloat if you are boarded you are in a situation where they are going to make a judgement call, they either believe you straight off or investigate further. IMO if you adopt any kind of 'attitude' you risk them thinking you have an ulterior motive, that is not helpful to your cause. I don't think this is the time or place to start insisting on you rights, this is a good time to bite your tongue, be polite and, only if they give you REAL reason, to start trying to remember the name of your MP and where you put the writing paper.

It's your boat, you are the skipper, it's your call. Good luck.

Robin

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[Peppermint]

Re: The gap

between expectation and reality can indeed be profound.



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