Current VAT siuation in Croatia.

[AndrewB]

I heard that after Croatia joined the EU in July 2013, customs there were particularly strict about the VAT status of visiting yachts.

Does anyone know if this is still the case, or are they more relaxed now? I was thinking of visiting this year, but I have no absolute proof that VAT was originally paid on my yacht. Because the yacht is 25 years old, normally it does not get questioned. But I do not want to go into Croatia only to get wrapped in a bunch of red tape, held up while I try to establish the status and liability of the yacht.

 

[macd]

This may be of interest: http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/DemystifyingCroatianrequestsforaT2L.aspx

 

[BrianH]

When I entered at Umag last year - without the document T2L that the Croatian maritime ministry had circulated all port authorities in Italy was necessary - there was no check for VAT or a T2L, only the usual ship registration, insurance certificate, and certificate of competence. Not asked for but tendered anyway, a VHF SRC, which they sometimes ask proof of.

It was stated that no customs check for proof of VAT (or T2L) would be made on declaring in or out but they, customs, could request it anywhere in Croatia at any time, but I was not checked nor were others from my Italian marina that I know. I have no definitive proof of the 'deemed VAT paid' status of my 1981-built yacht.

Many EU agencies were supposed to be consulting with the relevant Croatian authorities regarding the misuse of intention of the T2L document (including the RYA) but I have never heard of any result. Unless the apparent non-checking anywhere for such is result enough.

 

[RichardS]

I have a T2L but have never been asked to produce it although I have only left and returned to Croatia once.

I was asked for VAT proof at my marina but as mine is clearly a new-ish boat then that is perhaps not so surprising.

I can't remember what the T2L application requirements were but it was free so perhaps you could obtain one anyway?

Richard

 

[BrianH]

I have a T2L but have never been asked to produce it although I have only left and returned to Croatia once.

I was asked for VAT proof at my marina but as mine is clearly a new-ish boat then that is perhaps not so surprising.

I can't remember what the T2L application requirements were but it was free so perhaps you could obtain one anyway?

I have hesitated to approach HMRC as, although I have legally entered my boat on the MCA Part I register, it has never touched UK shores. I bought a Swedish boat in Holland and delivered to Italy where it is permanently moored, so I believe the UK customs may not consider it relevant for a UK T2L.

Some Italians I know who became very worried when they saw the official Croatian customs notice in our marina office went to an EU-accredited transport company (permitted to originate this document) and bought one. The price has now levelled out at €70 in San Giorgio di Nogaro, which is the closest. I really cannot reconcile paying to effectively legitimise an illegitimate demand. I was prepared to sail there and declare in without one and be prepared to stand my ground and argue the toss.

Many of my marina contacts who cruise to Croatia have no T2L document and if they want to charge or impound yachts for no T2L document then they will cause an administrative problem for themselves, damage their marine tourist industry and potentially create diplomatic incidents with a number of fellow EU members.

The Croatian customs notice specified that failure to produce a T2L document can result in a fine up to 100'000 HRK (€13'000). Could this anti-EU principle of freedom of movement action be a classic case of shooting oneself in the foot? Because the number of small boat owners in my marina who were voicing their intention to keep well away in 2014 was significant.

 

[RichardS]

I have hesitated to approach HMRC as, although I have legally entered my boat on the MCA Part I register, it has never touched UK shores. I bought a Swedish boat in Holland and delivered to Italy where it is permanently moored, so I believe the UK customs may not consider it relevant for a UK T2L.

I'm in a similar situation as my boat had never been to the UK and I bought it in Croatia where it has always remained. I'm not even MCA but only SSR.

I filled in the form, enclosed a SAE and received the T2L back from HMRC in about two weeks.

Richard

 

[BrianH]

I'm in a similar situation as my boat had never been to the UK and I bought it in Croatia where it has always remained. I'm not even MCA but only SSR.

I filled in the form, enclosed a SAE and received the T2L back from HMRC in about two weeks.

Richard

Thanks Richard, that is interesting. However, you have a UK address - I live permanently in Switzerland (when not aboard) having officially emigrated for all financial matters a lifetime or two ago.

[Pedant Mode] SSR is still MCA (Part III) and just as valid as Part I.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We sailed for three months last year in Croatia , the only documents ask for was insurance , SSR , passports same as every where else in the Med , yes there is a chance they will ask for prove VAT but that's isn't any different from any where else .

Barnacle ... At the moment all you need to show to get an SSR is an address In the UK butI guess that will change in time .

 

[BrianH]

Barnacle ... At the moment all you need to show to get an SSR is an address In the UK but I guess that will change in time .

It is because I do not have UK residence that I have Part I registration. I prefer to not falsely make application for SSR and have to ask someone to become an accessory to assist me in an illegal deception by acting as a mail-box. Once I even had a flag of convenience (Austrian) when they allowed the Yacht Club Austria to issue registrations (no longer). I think that Belgium is now the best possibility for foreign yacht registration.

Since about ten years ago when the MCA shortened the ownership paper trail for Part I to five years I have taken that course, despite its cost compared to Part III (SSR). Before that it was impossible for many to provide ownership and bills of sale from new for an older vessel that had passed through multiple ownerships. Recently there have been more stringent checks on SSR applications now that it is easier for non-residents to register legally.

 

[RichardS]

Thanks Richard, that is interesting. However, you have a UK address - I live permanently in Switzerland (when not aboard) having officially emigrated for all financial matters a lifetime or two ago.

[Pedant Mode] SSR is still MCA (Part III) and just as valid as Part I.

Ah yes, I remember now that you live in Switzerland. :encouragement:

About 30 years ago I was on a motorcycling tour with a friend and we came back from Italy via Zurich so we could stay for a couple of days with a lovely Swiss couple who were business acquaintances of my friend. We arrived at their house about 9:00 pm and they had eaten so we said it wasn't a problem and we should all go out to a restaurant and we would treat them to a drink. Our friend told us that unfortunately it was now too late to eat out! We were both gobsmacked and insisted on going out anyway. After being turned away from several restaurants as it was past "last orders" we found one which agreed to make us an omelette at that late hour (21:30) as we were starving. We then went to a bar where the specialities were drinks based on milk!

We decided that Switerland was lovely but weird and the next day we were fined on the spot for being about 5 kph over the speed limit. Great memories!

Richard

 

[BrianH]

Ah yes, I remember now that you live in Switzerland. :encouragement:

About 30 years ago I was on a motorcycling tour with a friend and we came back from Italy via Zurich so we could stay for a couple of days with a lovely Swiss couple who were business acquaintances of my friend. We arrived at their house about 9:00 pm and they had eaten so we said it wasn't a problem and we should all go out to a restaurant and we would treat them to a drink. Our friend told us that unfortunately it was now too late to eat out! We were both gobsmacked and insisted on going out anyway. After being turned away from several restaurants as it was past "last orders" we found one which agreed to make us an omelette at that late hour (21:30) as we were starving. We then went to a bar where the specialities were drinks based on milk!

We decided that Switerland was lovely but weird and the next day we were fined on the spot for being about 5 kph over the speed limit. Great memories!

Richard

Yes, it is weird although much has changed in 30 years, but your attempts to get a late meal resonates. In my business days I was responsible for opening up the Spanish market for my company's systems and spent much time there. Once, my Madrid-based manager had to come to Bern for a meeting and I met him on arrival and took him to his hotel; it was just after nine on a Sunday evening. Even I was surprised as we toured through the town to find a meal - impossible. As he said to me and as I knew well, the same problem would have happened in Madrid, it would have been too early to find a restaurant open, at ten just possible but only by eleven would they be coming to life. But of course, tapas aplenty everywhere.

Speed cameras are everywhere, I can beat your "5 kph over the speed limit" - last year I was fined for 41km in a 40km area. Admittedly, that was after the minor adjustment allowance, but, even so ...

 

[AndrewB]

Many thanks for some very helpful answers. I have contacted RYA regarding T2L.