macd
Well-Known Member
For RCD compliance, mainly.
Current sailboat owner has lost certificates and documents
- Thread starter CatoJ
- Start date
For RCD compliance, mainly.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
What RCD compliance obligations do you there are for the purchaser of a boat which has already been put into use within the EU?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Exactly. There is no requirement on an owner to be able to show either the certificate or the plate. The person responsible for these documents is the dealer who sells the boat to the first owner. He is the one that commits an offence if the document is missing or the CE is fraudulent. Policed by Trading Standards.
There is no chance that this boat did not comply when it was sold in 2006. The broker should have no problem tracing evidence that this was the case if the boat was sold in the UK. Surprised the broker has not already dealt with it.
macd
Well-Known Member
None. It has historical significance only. And perhaps covers a few screwholes which might otherwise leak
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
And even if it didn't comply (an improbable export special, perhaps), as long as it has been put into use in the EU, a subsequent purchaser has nothing at all to worry about, as far as I know.
CatoJ
New Member
Thank you to everyone who has engaged in this conversation. Hearing the different perspectives, experiences and viewpoints has created a strong sense of how things work and potential risks if any. I shall focus on getting the trail of bill of sales documented and negotiate the rest. Thanks again.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Tran, the BC doesn't get trumped. It is in effect the BoS from builder to first dealer - there is no separate BoS for that title transfer. IIRC. The first BoS is the one from dealer to first customer. Thus, to show a complete chain of title you need BC then all subsequent BoSs.
Whether a missing BC matters depends on the rules of the registry you want to use. With UK P1 they say they want unbroken title chain for last 5 years (IIRC) so in this case the missing BC doesn't matter because boat is 2006. For a newer boat it would matter. Hence I'm not disagreeing your final conclusion, only your "trumping" comment. (Please excuse my pedantry therefore!)
Plenty of people are not interested in P1 reg anyway. But it is always worthwhile imho ensuring your boat is capable of P1 reg, in case you end up selling it to a buyer who is mortgaging it and his bank insists on P1.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
On my new boat I have a Builders Certificate, Bill of Sale from Bavaria to Clipper and a BofS from Clipper to me. I assumed that was normal. Perhaps the word "trump" was not the best choice.
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
Am surprised if it is so easy to get the bits of missing paper the current owner and or broker has not taken steps to get them to facilitate a no fuss sale.
Spyro
Well-Known Member
Well you would expect these on a new boat but how us buying a 10 year old boat any different from buying a 40 year old one with no history or paperwork? It's unusual for an owner of a 10 year old boat not to have it but some evidence that the person selling actually owns it and some receipts is all I would be concerned about.
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
My responses were specific to the original question. It is a (relatively) new boat originally bought from a well established dealer. Therefore not unreasonable to expect comprehensive documentation. "Receipts" are not title - only evidence of goods purchased in relation to the boat. Even the original VAT receipt is not evidence of title, irrespective of whose name is on it.
Of course it is different with old boats from a time when documentation was not considered important and the boat has changed hands several times.
Suggest you read the material on yacht ownership on the RYA site which summarises the situation well and gives advice on what constitutes title.
For historic reasons we are stuck with a system that relies on title being established through a piece of paper with no compulsory system of registration of that title (or of VAT payment) so it is inevitable that on occasions judgement is required in assessing the strength of the title, taking into account the potential risk. In this case I would not accept a boat without a good documentary trail - £50k+ at stake so you want to be certain nobody else can claim title.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
My responses were specific to the original question. It is a (relatively) new boat originally bought from a well established dealer. Therefore not unreasonable to expect comprehensive documentation. "Receipts" are not title - only evidence of goods purchased in relation to the boat. Even the original VAT receipt is not evidence of title, irrespective of whose name is on it.
Of course it is different with old boats from a time when documentation was not considered important and the boat has changed hands several times.
Suggest you read the material on yacht ownership on the RYA site which summarises the situation well and gives advice on what constitutes title.
For historic reasons we are stuck with a system that relies on title being established through a piece of paper with no compulsory system of registration of that title (or of VAT payment) so it is inevitable that on occasions judgement is required in assessing the strength of the title, taking into account the potential risk. In this case I would not accept a boat without a good documentary trail - £50k+ at stake so you want to be certain nobody else can claim title.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Ah ok. There must be inconsistency on this then. My last 4 boats, all new, have just the BC evidencing transfer of title from builder to the dealer, and the first BoS in the chain is from dealer to me. All are/were P1 reg and this was accepted by registry. I guess it is ok therefore to do it either way. No worries and thanks for the info.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I checked with my man at Clipper and he confirmed that is what Ancasta do - he worked for them previously. Still don't have as many stamps and signatures as the Greek BofS for my last boat though!