Cuddy that trailers less than 1100kg

Yes, ok, understood. Nick and Lloydroberts thank you for your straight forwardness.

Having explored a bit of the S o France I experienced how difficult it was to get to all the out of the way beaches in a car (even my old AWD). Any beach with easy access was packed. We've been to a few that are picture postcard and my word what a trek! And then some boat just glides ashore. I was like Toad - I want that.

So I can achieve that with a rib or some other lighter craft. Once the family are hooked on boating (the wife included) I can talk about getting a Disco or whatever. This year needs to be a trial.

Gosh ribs are expensive! I'm quite liking this http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Speed-Boats-for-sale/ocean-master-470sc/19735#aSsEvRrITGamFGWB.97

400kg for the boat, so 900kg all in. What do you reckon about that behind a Mazda 5? Or do I need to go lighter still?
 
Martin,

You may also want to consider the impact of dunking your sparkly Mazda in the briny, especially after a bit of towing down some French slopes, and reversing the trailer into the water. Your Mazda will not have any nice high mounted periscope breathers for the rear axle, and the bearings will go "slurp" as they rapidly cool in the water, introducing lots of sea water, infused with sand and grit, into your bearings, and much the same will happen with your trailer axle, but that will not be such a disaster as your bearings failing on the drive home. This is why people tend to tow and launch with Land Rovers. They are designed for this type of thing.

I used to tow a 3.5 tonne rig with my Disco's. Never had any problems with brakes or bearings with the car. Trailer brakes were a nightmare though, and would corrode away before your eyes.
 
I've towed quite a bit over the years and only recently (2010) been afflicted with the boating bug, but in my experience nothing tows better than a proper 4x4 - even more so when slipways are concerned! Agree with Rafiki that Lard Rovers and the like are designed for this type of use and as well as the salt water, the wear and tear on the average car will be noticed. I have sealed bearings on current boat trailer, but before that I would change the previous ones every year (and carry a spare set!)

With regards to boat size (even with a 4x4), I wouldn't personally want to tow anything over about 24' any distance and without knowing the route. Once you get beyond this it may still be possible, but probably better berthed or at least stored close to slipway! Until you've done it, you don't realise how much more concentration is required when towing a heavy rig and that plus lower speeds can get quite tiring. I only mention this as you may find in a couple of years you enjoy so much that you are into 30-40' territory (or bigger) - in which case the changing the car will be irrelevant! I've been quite surprised how many people I know have gone from a 18~20' to 40~50' in a few years!

I used to move a friends 19' Fletcher GTO Sportscruiser around with the Land Rover because it was just a bit too heavy for his Vectra. It would tow fine on open roads and within the maximum weight, but steep inclines and slipways were too much. I think that is probably as large as you'll manage with the Mazda and even then you may need some help if the slipway isn't in good, clean condition. A front tow hitch and long rope might help and as maverickofpoole has said, take some chocks - you may need to recover in stages!

I wouldn't rule out a cuddy style boat if you can find something within the weight limit because the chances of the Missus and kids taking to boating will probably increase if they have access to a loo and somewhere to shelter if it gets a bit breezy! Sitting cross legged waiting to get back to port or nearest convenience is a sure fire way of putting most of the fairer sex off of boats! :D
 
rafiki_ said:
Martin,

You may also want to consider the impact of dunking your sparkly Mazda in the briny, especially after a bit of towing down some French slopes, and reversing the trailer into the water. Your Mazda will not have any nice high mounted periscope breathers for the rear axle, and the bearings will go "slurp" as they rapidly cool in the water, introducing lots of sea water, infused with sand and grit, into your bearings, and much the same will happen with your trailer axle, but that will not be such a disaster as your bearings failing on the drive home. This is why people tend to tow and launch with Land Rovers. They are designed for this type of thing.

I used to tow a 3.5 tonne rig with my Disco's. Never had any problems with brakes or bearings with the car. Trailer brakes were a nightmare though, and would corrode away before your eyes.
Click to expand...

Rafiki,

Not sure I'd ever need to get my car wheel hubs wet would I? With the right trailer my rear wheels would be in an inch of water at the worse, right? In terms of the trailer bearings I've seen you can get protective caps - the grease is pressurised and keeps out the water - looked pretty clever. But I accept that the sea water causes havoc.

I would certainly pay close attention to my trailer in any purchase.

I'll be in my Mazda 5 when viewing boats so I hope to be able to hook up and get a feel for how heavy the rig is, do a test launch and recovery.

Right now I'll aim for a boat thats about 500kg. This is a 15ft cabin cuddy at 490kg ! Looks cosy.
http://www.quicksilver-boats.com/quicksilver/uk/en/products/?m=Cruiser 470
 
Watch a few Youtube videos Martin, that'll give you an idea of how far you might need to dunk your car for launch and recovery. No two slips are the same, nor can you rely on the tide being right, I guarantee you'll end up backing in further than you would like, it's a given, not to mention the joy of lifting the trailer back up when it drops of the end of the slip way with a clunk !, local knowledge is invaluable. I live in Bucks, and if you're planing on towing down to the South Coast for a days boating at the weekend, then it'll be a long hard day, especially getting home come the summer holiday traffic. I would contact a few yards near where you intend to boat when you're in the UK, see what the cost of storage is, it's nice to have your boat at home, but from the sounds of it you've at least a a 2 hour trip each way if your lucky. Just a thought for you on Bowriders, and at the risk of stating the obvious, if you stuff it into a wave, you'll get wet feet and an unhappy and possibly scared crew. If you're going to be boating around the Solent and Poole areas you can pick your weather, but you'll come across some big wash at times, getting it wrong and swamping a Bowrider is a distinct possibility. I Like many others have contemplated a Bowrider but dismissed them in the end. You need to give thought to where you'll actually boat and the conditions you might come across. No matter how well you calculate weight etc, come your holiday to France, the boat becomes a massive trailer for the suit cases etc, needs must when the kids knees are around their ears with cases under their feet ! Just a thought regarding France, for now, why not get an inflatable Rib with say a 20/25hp 2 stroke outboard, something you don't need a trailer for, something you can deflate and carry in/on the car, or even in a small box trailer, something like http://inflatables.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=406571 . It'll get you to all those secluded bays and you can still have fun towing the kids on a Ringo. It could well give you more fun and less hassle for your money, plus you can take your time over buying a cuddy/whatever if you still want one....and just like that you've gone from contemplating 1 boat, to 2 !!!
 
Martin_247 said:
Rafiki,

Not sure I'd ever need to get my car wheel hubs wet would I? With the right trailer my rear wheels would be in an inch of water at the worse, right? In terms of the trailer bearings I've seen you can get protective caps - the grease is pressurised and keeps out the water - looked pretty clever. But I accept that the sea water causes havoc.

I would certainly pay close attention to my trailer in any purchase.

I'll be in my Mazda 5 when viewing boats so I hope to be able to hook up and get a feel for how heavy the rig is, do a test launch and recovery.

Right now I'll aim for a boat thats about 500kg. This is a 15ft cabin cuddy at 490kg ! Looks cosy.
http://www.quicksilver-boats.com/quicksilver/uk/en/products/?m=Cruiser 470
Click to expand...

I've yet to see the 'right' trailer for all occasions and I've had hundreds and moved thousands(not boat trailers, granted)
Your car will get wet, searay sums it up perfectly.
 
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Martin_247 said:
Rafiki,

Not sure I'd ever need to get my car wheel hubs wet would I? With the right trailer my rear wheels would be in an inch of water at the worse, right? In terms of the trailer bearings I've seen you can get protective caps - the grease is pressurised and keeps out the water - looked pretty clever. But I accept that the sea water causes havoc.

I would certainly pay close attention to my trailer in any purchase.

I'll be in my Mazda 5 when viewing boats so I hope to be able to hook up and get a feel for how heavy the rig is, do a test launch and recovery.

Right now I'll aim for a boat thats about 500kg. This is a 15ft cabin cuddy at 490kg ! Looks cosy.
http://www.quicksilver-boats.com/quicksilver/uk/en/products/?m=Cruiser 470
Click to expand...

Unless both you and your lady wife are built like Geoff Capes, and you can recover the trailer by hand, your car will get wet! When I was launching/recovering, I was stepping into the water from the driver's door.
 
Having slept on this (and dreaming I was huddled up on the deck of a QuickSilver 470, woken by the wash of a seagull) I have a couple of options to explore.

1) It would be fair to assume that at the various marinas and slips along the med, or anywhere for that matter, they will have the facilities to drop my boat in and out for me - a tractor or a spare 4x4. So with a bit of planning, prior arrangement and hanging about I could trailer on the back of my Mazda 5 without worrying about slipways - just town centres, hill starts etc. At least I could then tow up to my max of 1200kg - a cosy cuddy.

2) I guess I could look at trading in my 2 month old Mazda 5. That would be the equivalent of a few grand for a couple of months car hire, ouch :) If I were to do this it would have to be with the same dealership and therefore the Mazda cx-5 4x4. It's a bit of a softy, a crossover suv, but 4WD makes all the difference and then I would be able to tow about 1500kg. That would give me a more sensible cuddy.

I'm not ready to trade in for a Disco. If this trip is a success then maybe next year.

For sure though, I take all of the points above, if I want to ensure enjoyment of boating a little protection will be needed = cuddy.
 
4wd is not always necessary, we have never had a problem with this outfit
The whole lot weighs over 8 tons, the van does have a limited slip diff and a very low 1st gear and a lot of weight over the driven wheels
I would go for the cuddy it's more family freindly, on shallow angle slips we use a draw bar to extend the trailer, for retrieving you can always reverse up the slip, giving you a lower gear and the weight in the right place, I would use the vehicles towing eye and a length of rope to the trailer, if you have problems you can always attach the line to something solid and use a snatch block on the trailer, effectively halving the weight

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On shallow slipways you can always use an extension bar or rope to save getting the car wet. A rope can also be used to start the car higher up the slipway if it is struggling pulling the boat out from the bottom.
 
Agree - before I had proper 4x4 I used to simply tie a long rope to the trailer, that allowed me to drive the car on the level ground at the top of the slip - thus only trying to pull the boat weight UP the slip.

Having said that, I agree that once the weight of fuel, passengers, kids, and paraphanalia is taken into account - a Mazda 5 isn't going to tow more than a small dayboat happily.

Perhaps the answer is a small dayboat this year, then re-think.
 
Having chipped away at the missus and digested all the advice here I am going to look at a few cabin cuddies in the 17-21ft range and then get the car necessary. I didn't realise I could get a 10 year old 4x4 for £1500 (Hyundai Sante Fe) to £2/3k (Old Disco I or II).

It's going to cost me £500 at the Mazda dealership to put on a tow bar!

So decide what starter boat I want and then reserve some cash for a 3rd car, just as @BruceK mentioned.

Just booked my RYA Powerboat 2 course in Southampton for Wednesday - a good opportunity to boat shop.

For some reason I don't fancy buying in France. I consider any gain with the exchange rate can be offset by the increased risk - no offence to any french yard owners - I just don't have sufficient command of the language to buy my first boat in french.

Searay, you would have no qualms about buying in France?
 
Martin_247 said:
Having chipped away at the missus and digested all the advice here I am going to look at a few cabin cuddies in the 17-21ft range and then get the car necessary. I didn't realise I could get a 10 year old 4x4 for £1500 (Hyundai Sante Fe) to £2/3k (Old Disco I or II).

It's going to cost me £500 at the Mazda dealership to put on a tow bar!

So decide what starter boat I want and then reserve some cash for a 3rd car, just as @BruceK mentioned.

Just booked my RYA Powerboat 2 course in Southampton for Wednesday - a good opportunity to boat shop.

For some reason I don't fancy buying in France. I consider any gain with the exchange rate can be offset by the increased risk - no offence to any french yard owners - I just don't have sufficient command of the language to buy my first boat in french.

Searay, you would have no qualms about buying in France?
Click to expand...

french law is complicated, and 200 years out of date (Napolianic law).
i put a deposit on a house, signed the contract which clearly stated subject to title etc etc, house had no planning permission. Had to go to court to get deposit returned because vendor has to volunteer to give back money under French law; after a 5 year wait money got refunded eventually, but I has to pay a advocate 3k in fees!


The french law on boat purchase; ask Napoleon Bonaparte! :D
Getting your deposit back? 5 years? 10 years? Never Who knows?

The lesson learned: French constitutional law trumps contract law! You have been warned.
 
Unashamedly pinched from another site, but amusingly relevant to this thread

boat-towed-by-mobility-scooter-136397129834703901-150326142011.jpg


Man-uses-mobility-scooter-to-tow-boat-around-Hartlepool.jpg
 
Martin_247 said:
Having chipped away at the missus and digested all the advice here I am going to look at a few cabin cuddies in the 17-21ft range and then get the car necessary. I didn't realise I could get a 10 year old 4x4 for £1500 (Hyundai Sante Fe) to £2/3k (Old Disco I or II).

It's going to cost me £500 at the Mazda dealership to put on a tow bar!

So decide what starter boat I want and then reserve some cash for a 3rd car, just as @BruceK mentioned.

Just booked my RYA Powerboat 2 course in Southampton for Wednesday - a good opportunity to boat shop.

For some reason I don't fancy buying in France. I consider any gain with the exchange rate can be offset by the increased risk - no offence to any french yard owners - I just don't have sufficient command of the language to buy my first boat in french.

Searay, you would have no qualms about buying in France?
Click to expand...


Good choice. Just an obvious word of caution, don't go too cheap on the 4x4, you want to be spending money on the boat and holiday not repairing an old banger. And mirror the insurance policy so you can use any existing no claims. Otherwise your insurance premium will dampen the high spirits. Aviva did mine.
Sure you dont want a Disco 3 and Sea Ray 19CC Seville as a going job lot? Yours for 14k :p - Hey, I got to try ;)

20131117_1532220.jpg
 
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I personally would have no qualms about buying in France, having said that I've not actually done it. I contemplated it, did my homework and even lined some boats up to view in La Rochelle, but then I got lucky and got a deal on a UK boat that I thought was out of my price range. There are others on the forum more qualified than I to tell you about the pro's and con's of buying abroad, forum members seem to do it all the time. As long as you do your homework and seek good advice, if you find the boat you really want and it happens to be in France then go for it, you can tow any purchase home yourself, that's why I had no problem looking at boats there. Obviously the further afield you go the more problematic it becomes, so if you can get what you want in the UK it'll be far less hassle in the end. I would advise you look at lots of boats, get a feel for what's available for the money, then you'll know when something special comes along. Anything neglected could be a bargain, but personally I would sooner buy a boat from an enthusiast owner that has cherished his vessel and is proud to show you around. On the plus side, you'll be looking at boats that were expensive when they were new, and if you're lucky the majority of the depreciation has been worn by previous owners, boat prices are more about condition than age a lot of the time. Buy right, keep it in good shape and you could even make on it when the time comes to sell. As I've said I'm a Cap Camarat fan, I had a little look about and found this http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=406162 , it looks like a lot of boat for the money, especially if the condition is good. I think it's been on the market a while, I seem to remember it up for sale from when I was boat hunting. Obviously I don't know, but if you could pick up something like that for 10k, you'll have more money to play with for a 4x4 and some boaty bits. Like I say, look at lots of boats and see what you can get for your budget. Don't be tempted by the cheap more obscure brands, resale will be hard. Being realistic and depending on how hardy you and your family are, 6-7 months is your practicable usable boating time. If you can make arrangements with a yard to store it on site for that period, and they can slip it for you, then you only need to tow it at the start, and back home at the end of the season (assuming you don't take it to France) for which you can probably get away with using your own car, or borrow a vehicle.
 
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If it helps your decision making this rig is a Draco 2000 with Volvo Inboard on trailer towed by a 2005 2.5 ltr Nissan X Trail which we have had for 10 years now, and can thoroughly recommend this combo.
Boat on trailer weighs in at 1650 Kg on trailer on weighbridge - with NO cruising gear, and the Nissan's max tow weight is 2000Kg. Electronic 4wd system handy for those slippery slips and the loose ground of some boatyards. If it's of any interest the Draco is going to market soon as we have gone bigger and I don't think the Nissan will manage 4.5 tonne,your'e welcome to PM me

Regards

David
 
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