Cruising sailors a dying breed?

We have spent a lot of time in Holland and on the Atlantic coast of France. There we noticed that there are many(!) young people out on boats and sailing. Holland has a very lively marine culture and especially on the inland waterways there are always young people camp-cruising in open boats. In France, just about every port has one or more sailing schools that appear to be very well attended, particularly during the summer and we were always impressed by the number of cruising boats with a young crew. The ubiquitous Glenan sailing school has fleets of boats all, it seems, crowded to the gunnel with kids. I must say we never quite experienced that on the South Coast of the UK when we visited last summer. But then, sailing in France and Holland is considerably less costly than in the UK. A.
 
dgadee said:
They might get 2 beginners on the following course. Then 4 ...
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They might, or they might not.
It's not trivial sorting out a training programme, getting instructors qualified up to date, suitable boats in working order etc etc. The club I'm in where there is some training, serious volunteer hours go into it, a fair amount of club cash and having club training boats cluttering up the yard has sometimes meant turning away prospective members with their own boats.
Lots of people on the internet saying what clubs should be doing, a lot less people volunteering to do a dozen saturdays every year or bunging us a grand or two to sponsor a Pico. Largely it depends on parent members making it happen for their own kids and other kids at the same time.
It wouldn't help if every club tried to provide training, there's a finite number of punters in 30 miles of coastline and quite a few clubs. People with kids to get trained join the appropriate clubs, even if that means being a member of more than one.
The world of adult beginners seems to be different. Seems to work better to do a week in the Med then buy a Laser and JFDI.
I'd be very pleased if more adults were coming into the sport, but there's no magic bullet.
 
Laminar Flow said:
We have spent a lot of time in Holland and on the Atlantic coast of France. There we noticed that there are many(!) young people out on boats and sailing. Holland has a very lively marine culture and especially on the inland waterways there are always young people camp-cruising in open boats. In France, just about every port has one or more sailing schools that appear to be very well attended, particularly during the summer and we were always impressed by the number of cruising boats with a young crew. The ubiquitous Glenan sailing school has fleets of boats all, it seems, crowded to the gunnel with kids. I must say we never quite experienced that on the South Coast of the UK when we visited last summer. But then, sailing in France and Holland is considerably less costly than in the UK. A.
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I have no experience sailing in Holland but what you say about France is true. Many small boats, young crews, and singlehanders.
 
lw395 said:
They might, or they might not.
It's not trivial sorting out a training programme, getting instructors qualified up to date, suitable boats in working order etc etc. The club I'm in where there is some training, serious volunteer hours go into it, a fair amount of club cash and having club training boats cluttering up the yard has sometimes meant turning away prospective members with their own boats.
Lots of people on the internet saying what clubs should be doing, a lot less people volunteering to do a dozen saturdays every year or bunging us a grand or two to sponsor a Pico. Largely it depends on parent members making it happen for their own kids and other kids at the same time.
It wouldn't help if every club tried to provide training, there's a finite number of punters in 30 miles of coastline and quite a few clubs. People with kids to get trained join the appropriate clubs, even if that means being a member of more than one.
The world of adult beginners seems to be different. Seems to work better to do a week in the Med then buy a Laser and JFDI.
I'd be very pleased if more adults were coming into the sport, but there's no magic bullet.
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Yes, training kids has special issues. I was really thinking of older beginners. I was well into my 20s before I was on a sailing boat. I learned by crewing in an informal situation. Paying to get sufficient experience to then own my own cruising boat would not have been particularly attractive at that age.
 
My club with access to Chichester and Langstone Harbours, both for cruiser moorings and dinghy sailing, is thriving.

This is because the people in charge had the brains to see how sailing was declining and do something pro-active to beat the downward trend - for a start we introduced a lot more casual dinghy ' cruising ' events inc camping overnight with good safety boat backup carrying tents etc - I've always felt clubs which stipulated ' you may only sail and must race these classes ' deserved to fail.

We have a very active dinghy fleet with all sorts of instruction from junior level if people fancy it, and a couple of fleets of Junior dinghies people can sign for and take out, with adults in safety boats.

The cruisers are very active too with a lot of meets through the season - and we all help each other with any work required during the winter ashore or indeed when we're afloat.

The talk of sailings' demise is somewhat exaggerated. :)
 
coopec said:
When I read the posts on the different forums I get the impression most people posting are "older" people. Where are all the younger sailors?
Maybe the answer is that the "millennials" can't afford a yacht and that is why prices of yachts are falling?

Forty years ago there was a boatyard set aside for amateur boat builders and there was 100 boats under construction but now there are none.
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There are tons of younger sailors doing it as a lifestyle choice for adventure rather than for actual sailing. I've met a load. They are cruising to fund places to play, so that excludes the UK and of course they wouldn't been dead hanging around sailing clubs eugh.

Boats of a lot cheaper than a house, so they take their combined (usually have a GF/BF) 50-100k deposit.Buy a boat and cruising to the Balearics, then on to the Canaries and Caribbean. Greece and the east tends to be for the oldies ;)

I've met loads mostly in their mid/late 20s and 30s, so right in the millennial age bracket. Usually sailing Somthing like a Colvic Victor, HR, Westerly, and slightly older bennateaus. Unfortunately I don't see many like myself with catamarans.
 
Not cruising, but my local sailing club the Yorkshire Dales sailing Club realised some years ago that it's membership was ageing and not being replaced. It decided that friendly but pro active marketing was needed. Also many of their funding applications had conditions attached that they provide youth training. it's a battle that is never won, but they have been very successful and one of my aquaintances recently received a merit award from the RYA for her work over the last 25 years. Some of the young sailors I knew 40 years ago were manning a stand at our local agricultural show last year....all in their 60s now. That was a new initiative and they were getting lots of interest from young people.

As ever, keeping a club vibrant takes a lot of hard work, dedication and enthusiasm from a generally small group of people, over many years.
 
TLouth7 said:
That was a deeply lazy and irrelevant comment.

There are plenty of young people racing on yachts, though few as skippers apart from in the smaller classes.
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Thank you for that advice!! I wish I had your wisdom ?

"A recent World Health Organisation report revealed that the number of obese children and adolescents – aged five to 19 years – worldwide has risen tenfold in the past four decades.
Worryingly, it also predicts that “obese” is likely to become the new norm. The report stated that: "If current trends continue, more children and adolescents will be obese than moderately or severely underweight by 2022."

And you think that is not relevant? :)
 
Seajet said:
I've always felt clubs which stipulated ' you may only sail and must race these classes ' deserved to fail.
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Reminds me of an awful experience I had at Draycote Water Sailing Club back in the 90s .... we had bought a laser pico to teach the kids to sail, my oldest was about 4 or 5 at the time and we were out mucking around on the reservoir when he decided he needed to go to the toilet - immediately. There were a few boats heading into the water to get ready for the racing, but the start was a good 20-30 mins out so we headed in to the clubhouse ..... wind was strong so we were going quite fast but some t**t stood up in his boat and let rip with a string of abuse about keeping the start clear. My son was quite concerned about what we had done wrong.

I pulled the boat out, cleared out my space and cancelled my membership. Never went back.

We sailed in Chichester after that, where the in-laws lived and had a dinghy, it was far more friendly there - apart from when the fleets came in for races. Remember an RS gathering where some obnoxious git was at the back of the fleet as the boats were being pulled out, shouting abuse at the other sailors to get their boats out of the water faster - achieved nothing other than a bad atmosphere.

What is it about dinghy racing that brings out peoples inner d**khead? I've seen all sorts of obnoxious behaviour associated with racing over the years, from drunken louts dumping rubbish along the crinan canal towpath to abuse of cruisers by racing yachts - just for being on the water minding their own business - I've even witnessed parents verbally abusing their offspring in optimists from the shoreline - at the top of their voices.

Must say, put me off clubs and racing for life.
 
coopec said:
Thank you for that advice!! I wish I had your wisdom ?

"A recent World Health Organisation report revealed that the number of obese children and adolescents – aged five to 19 years – worldwide has risen tenfold in the past four decades.
Worryingly, it also predicts that “obese” is likely to become the new norm. The report stated that: "If current trends continue, more children and adolescents will be obese than moderately or severely underweight by 2022."

And you think that is not relevant? :)
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Obesity is not a problem confined to youth - it spans all age groups and is strongly related to socio-economic status, and socio-economic status is a determining factor in being able to afford to go sailing. Buying a boat or club membership/mooring fees is not something those on low incomes can afford.

Among the reasons for the growing obesity in the population of poor people are: higher unemployment, lower education level, and irregular meals. Another cause of obesity is low physical activity, which among the poor is associated with a lack of money for sports equipment.
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Obesity and poverty paradox in developed countries. - PubMed - NCBI

It’s poverty, not individual choice, that is driving extraordinary obesity levels
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As you can see in the interactive graph below (toggle the options to see how they compare), of the ten worst areas in terms of overweight or obese children, half are also in the worst ten for child poverty. England’s most obese council, Brent, is also its ninth poorest, whereas England’s wealthiest council, Richmond, despite being a neighbouring council in London, is one of the sprightliest, with a relatively low rate of obesity. And England’s poorest council? Another London borough, Newham, is also the eighth most affected by childhood obesity.
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It's poverty, not individual choice, that is driving extraordinary obesity levels

IMO, childhood obesity is not really a factor in youth not taking up sailing - apart from anything else, fat sailors make good moveable ballast. ;)
 
coopec said:
There's a few people claiming recreational sailing is on the increase among the younger generation on the basis of personal observation. But in the US of A census statistics indicate participation is falling.

Sailing wanes as baby boomers, millennials find other ways to play

And in the UK?
The future of UK sailing
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Unfortunately, the first link is not available in Europe - the web page is blocked for me in Germany with the following text:

Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.
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Baggywrinkle said:
Obesity is not a problem confined to youth - it spans all age groups and is strongly related to socio-economic status, and socio-economic status is a determining factor in being able to afford to go sailing. Buying a boat or club membership/mooring fees is not something those on low incomes can afford.

Obesity and poverty paradox in developed countries. - PubMed - NCBI

It's poverty, not individual choice, that is driving extraordinary obesity levels

IMO, childhood obesity is not really a factor in youth not taking up sailing - apart from anything else, fat sailors make good moveable ballast. ;)
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I didn't say obesity was confined to youth!:rolleyes: (You are trying to put words in my mouth!!)

I stated what the World Health Organization has found - that obesity in the younger generation has increased tenfold over the last 40 years

I won't comment on anything else you have said because we would largely be in agreement.

?OMG! Just the other day they published the results of a survey of people living in Perth WA.suburbs It was so sad because people living in the "disadvantaged suburbs"
  • Smoked the most
  • Drank the most
  • Were more obese than people living in other suburbs
  • Ate more take-a-way than people in other suburbs
I know your comment regarding obese people make good ballast was just a flippant remark but they are finding these days "people are turning to power-boating as it is less demanding".
 
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I fall into the millennial bracket and consider myself lucky to be able to sail/cruise in the UK. Several of my friends sailed dinghies as teenagers and want to come to come out cruising but do not often have the time. However the main reasons I can do this is that I currently work for myself so can chose my hours, and I inherited my boat (and although I love it, it meant I didn't really have a choice about taking on the responsibility).
If this hadn't happened I wouldn't have taken on a boat and would be sailing as crew very irregularly still. This is primarily because of time and money, most of my peers are saving up for mortgages and maybe starting families. Work increasingly spills over into the weekend as of course do other family commitments, plus the often 2hr+ drive each way to the boat. School holidays wipe out a lot of the summer. Those that want to come sailing with me need dates booked far in advance and we all know that's not how sailing works.
Like many of us I can't afford to pay someone to do all the maintenance work on my older boat, so I have to dedicate time to this which can be difficult and often takes priority over the sailing itself.
In conclusion I'd say lots of people my age want to sail, but due to location, careers, young families and other time commitments, having their own, or even a shared boat, does not make sense. A charter in a location where the weather is more likely to play ball on set dates agreed in advance with work is far better value.

With regards to YC training and encouraging younger members I have to say my YC has been great. I am almost certainly the youngest (active) member by about 20+ years but have been welcomed and encouraged to no end. There is no official training offered, but there is always someone willing to answer questions or come out for a sail with me/on their boat. There are fun days and 'try it out' days, the club also has a sailing dinghy members can borrow. I feel perhaps here the barrier to more young people getting involved with the dinghy is them being unaware of this middle ground and how to get started with it - more club information online perhaps?
 
coopec said:
I didn't say obesity was confined to youth!:rolleyes: (You are trying to put words in my mouth!!)

I stated what the World Health Organization has found - that obesity in the younger generation has increased tenfold over the last 40 years

I won't comment on anything else you have said because we would largely be in agreement.

?OMG! Just the other day they published the results of a survey of people living in Perth WA.suburbs It was so sad because people living in the "disadvantaged suburbs"
  • Smoked the most
  • Drank the most
  • Were more obese than people living in other suburbs
  • Ate more take-a-way than people in other suburbs
I know your comment regarding obese people make good ballast was just a flippant remark but they are finding these days "people are turning to power-boating as it is less demanding".
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? True in alll "western" civilisations .... poor people are less healthy, more overweight and likely to have a lower life expectancy - they are also less likely to sail - probably even less likely to buy a motor boat as the fuel costs are astronomical.
 
I have no idea about the sort of people taking up power boating, but I think it a fair assumption that appeals as an instant transport fix without the dedication - almost a lifestyle choice - required by sailing. This thread made me wonder when was the last time I saw a fat dinghy sailor, young or old - I don't remember seeing any for the last 20 years, we have the odd slightly portly cruiser sailor - like me ! - but now you mention it the newcomers to dinghy and cruiser sailing tend to be reasonably fit to start with, I suspect sailing by its nature appeals to people who aren't couch potatos and realise one has to make an effort for it to work.
 
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