Cruising Marmaris-Crete-Santorini and back

[truscott]

We're looking at cruising to Santorini this coming summer and are wondering if anyone has any insight about cruising Crete?

We have been thinking of clearing out of Marmaris and into Greece at Rhodes, then heading to Alimiya and then on down to Crete. I don't have the Greek Waters Pilot yet (have to wait until the 25th to open it) but in any case, I've found that a lot of the pilot books are not as up to date as posters on here and other forums.

Other ideas are to clear out of Turgutreis, into Greece at Kalymnos and then work our way down from there.

As far as Santorini goes, that part is fixed. SWMBO, will be. I'm hoping to moor in Vlychada, with someone on one of the forums mentioning it has been dredged to 2.5 Mtrs.

Appreciate any info you may have to offer.

 

[cmedsailor]

Mantraki at Rhodes could be a real pain in the summer. Since your boat is in Turkey you may know this already. If you need supplies (fuel, food, diesel) probably they will let you stop for a few hours. Otherwise go to Symi. If you don't need any supplies but just to stop and relax Lindos bay is very nice and secured but that means your are sailing down the east part of Rhodes.
Crossing from Rhodes to Crete means crossing the Carpathian. It usually blows like hell over there. It's the place where the meltemi really gets nasty. Be VERY careful and select carefully a weather window.

 

[truscott]

It's the Rhodes to Crete part that I'm apprehensive about. There's a lot of talk about it blowing like hell, which I'm not keen on. Will do it if I have to, but not out of choice. The harbours around Crete (especially the southern side) look kind of bomb proof (at least in the pics on Google Earth), which makes one think that there's a reason for that. Also, there's quite a few Windsurfing spots around the coast, and generally we like to windsurf where there's a lot of wind, which is the exact opposite of where we like to sail!

I have a feeling that we're going to wimp out and go north and miss Crete altogether, but I'll hold off until I'm positive that its a no go.

We're talking mid July and August too, which seem to be when the Meltemi is in full swing and thus it looks like I'm making a rod for my own back.

Thanks for the input though.

PT.

 

[cmedsailor]

Also, there's quite a few Windsurfing spots around the coast, and generally we like to windsurf where there's a lot of wind, which is the exact opposite of where we like to sail!
PT.

Prassonisi in Rhodes. Wave sailing on one side and slalom on the other.
Elounda in Crete I think is good though never been there.
Karpathos if your biggest sail is around 4.0 square meters!!!

 

[jimbaerselman]

Don't be put off too much by the Meltemi. It rarely exceeds F7 in open water in summer. A typical pattern is 2 to 4 days up to F7 in the afternoons, then 2 to 4 days maximum F5 (3 or 4 at night and in the mornings). Stronger sessions are usually accurately forecast a day or two ahead on Poseidon or other web map source.

This account will now be countered by some "we had a F9!" replies, to which I'd reply "yes, some islands cause local terrain effects" - W Crete around Paleohora, Cyclades between Paros and Naxos, and between Evia and Andros being good examples. And yes, there will be a stronger session of winds for a couple of days during the summer. Avoidable.

Of course, an almost certain beat to windward of some 60nm from Crete to Thyra probably crosses that idea off the list, even if you're lucky enough to pick a F4. Pythagoras insists that the journey will take at least 20 hours, depending how long your boat is! So the downwind trip is infinitely preferable.

So my choice would be to work north along the Dodecanese to Leros, then take a short reach across to Levitha, and another 30nm reach to Amorgos, followed by a braod reach of 40nm to Thyra. The map on http://www.jimbsail.info/mediterranean/greece/cyclades should help you envisage this passage.

The easy escapes from Crete are either NW to Kythera, or ENE to Karpathos then Lindos (Rhodes), so where you go from Crete depends on your wintering or later cruising plans. It is a good wintering stop in its own right, with a fine climate!

When comparing Crete with the Cyclades as a cruising ground, I prefer the variety of the Cyclades, and love the quiet anchorages among the archipelagos south of Naxos and Paros. Having said that, day cruising along the N coast of Crete is feasible and interesting. Both are described on my web site pages, with brief notes on each of the islands and ports.

 

[BobnLesley]

Santorini

...I'm hoping to moor in Vlychada, with someone on one of the forums mentioning it has been dredged to 2.5 Mtrs...

Is that the harbour/marina around the bottom on the SE end? I can never remember names and neither Lesley or the Pilot Book are here to check with. Assuming that it is, then I can confirm that about three years ago there was 2.5m and more; equally important, it's nothing like as difficult/hair-raising to access as the Pilot Book (the gospel according to Saint Rodney at least) would have you believe. enjoy!

 

[jimbaerselman]

Is that the harbour/marina around the bottom on the SE end? I can never remember names and neither Lesley or the Pilot Book are here to check with. Assuming that it is, then I can confirm that about three years ago there was 2.5m and more; equally important, it's nothing like as difficult/hair-raising to access as the Pilot Book (the gospel according to Saint Rodney at least) would have you believe. enjoy!

There it is, on the map!

 

[little_roundtop]

Crete pilot

As far as Crete is concerned, go to http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25934908/Crete Pilot.pdf and download my free pilot for Crete. It details most (all?) the ports, harbours and anchorages there are here. It's large so give it a while to download!

Cruising to Crete from Marmaris in Summer will be windy but quite fun because the wind is mostly NW in that area. When the Meltemi is blowing the seas will be big and confused, expect waves of 3 to 4 meters between Rhodes and Crete, between Kassos and Crete they are often higher.

Getting to Santorini from Crete will be more of a challenge with a Meltemi because it's a NW wind at the eastern end of Crete, a N wind in the middle and a NE wind at the west end of Crete. So no matter from where on Crete you leave you'll be beating into wind and sea.

if Santorini is a must I'd go there first from Marmaris across the eastern Cyclades and then drop down to Crete. The trip from Crete back to Marmaris will be a wild ride in the Meltemi but certainly doable.

Tony Cross

PS. If, as Jim suggests, you fancy wintering on Crete then only Agios Nikoloas Marina (book very early - it fills up fast) and Rethimnon (VERY limited space and usually full) are safe all winter.

 

[truscott]

Thanks everyone for your responses and nice to know about the windsurfing spots (just need to work out somewhere safe to leave the boat when we get there now).

Based on everything that has been said, does this sound more reasonable?

Clear out of Marmaris and into Symi,
head for Palon on Nisiros,
then Skala on Patmos (want to visit the monastery there).
Ikaria seems logical enough, but where? Maganitis?
on to Mykinos and Delos. Anyone have experience of over nighting at Delos? Is it allowed, or some kind of National Park that you have to vacate at dusk?
Naxos & Paros are logical enough, as is Ios and on to Santorini/Thira but mooring at Vlychada (thanks for the confirmation on depth BobnLesley & Jim). Incidentally, why is it called Santorini? Can't find a single village there called that, and the island is called Thira. Am I missing something (being an antipodean and not versed in all things European, this is quite common)?

But we still have the juicy bit - getting along the coast of Crete.

I'm keen to visit the lagoon at Balos, but am open to cruising along the northern or southern coasts, and then working our way back to Symi via Karpathos and Alimia (which I quite like).

I'm still downloading Tony's pdf, and at 124MB, it's probably going to take most of the evening on this crappy connection.

Heading along the south coast from Balos, I've identified the following ports;
Paleohora; Galini; Kokkinos Pyrgos; Kaloi Limenes; Lentas (one of the GE Pictures shows a sunken coaster at the quay, so no worries about depth here then!); Tsoutsouros; Kastri; Lerapetra; Makrygialos; and Kouremenos. Then jump off to Karpathos.

Sailing along the north coast is a shorter route, but I'm worried about getting a pasting along the way. SWMBO and I have had some interesting times together over the years, but I'll certainly be dipping into the brownie points store if I ruin her hols by being too adventurous.

For reference purposes, the north coast seems to offer the following ports;
Khania; Souda; Bali Harbour (thought that was over in my half of the world, but anyway...); Herakleion;Malia; Agios Nikolaos; and Kouremenos. Then jump off to Karpathos.

Whilst we love night sailing in familiar waters (and where there are no huge ferries to run you down), we haven't had to endure a F7 or more, and so the jump from Thira to Crete is cause for concern (for me at least. SWMBO has happily sailed Fiji to NZ, whereas I am a lifetime round the cans man. She can leap tall buildings in a single bound, or at least attempts to, whereas I look for the footpath around the outside. Hence all the questions. Once I've got it right in my head, I feel a little more prepared).

My apologies for rambling on. And thanks again and in advance for any and all input.

Cheers, PT

 

[cmedsailor]

Probably JimB has a better suggestion but I have a feeling that from Symi to Patmos, instead of passing through Nisiros, it's better to stop at Kos (excellent marina) or Kalymnos and then head to Patmos from the east side of Kalymnos and Leros.

Have never been to Magganitis but can comment about Evdilos in Ikaria. AVOID it unless the new port has been finished. I was there two years ago and there was a horrible swell in the port.

Santorini = santa Irene
According to Herodotus, the island was initially called Strongyle (the Round One). Later, because of its beauty, it was called Kalliste (the Fairest One). To Kalliste, came the Phoenicians and there they settled. After the Phoenicians, the Lacedaemonians arrived and gave the island the name of their leader,Theras.
The name Santorini was given by the Crusaders after the church of Aghia Irini (Santa Irene) at around 1200.

By the way, the most popular name nowadays (for Greeks) is Santorini.

Have fun. I am really jealous!!

 

[BobnLesley]

Delos, windsurfing and thanks Jim

...There it is, on the map!...

Yes, that was the place I meant, 2.5m and easy enough to enter/leave.

Delos anchoring: They dont like/let you anchor in the channel overnight, but the 'South Bay' anchorage on Rinia a mile to the west is a peach - nothing there though.

windsurfing spots: I'm no expert, just an interested spectator, but twice when we've been in Naousa on Paros with a bit of a breeze, the winsurfers have looked to have a great time: Find a secure spot in the Bay to anchor, dependent on wind direction and you've got a vast area of relatively 'flat' water with a stiff breeze to play in on the windsurfer

 

[cmedsailor]

For windsurfing in Paros, Golden Coast (Xrysi Akti) is THE place. PWA used to make races over there (I don't know if it still does; unfortunately since buying a boat I windsurf less and less).

 

[satsuma]

Clear out of Marmaris and into Symi,
head for Palon on Nisiros,
then Skala on Patmos

Between Nisyros and Patmos, is Levitha, a most delightful, extremely well protected and very beautiful anchorage. It would be a shame to miss it, since you are going so close!

There is little on the island but goats and one farmhouse that doubles as a cafe (wouldn't go so far as restaurant) and charges for use of the laid moorings, but anchoring is free.

 

[truscott]

This is why I hang out here. Many thanks to you all for your info. The explanation on Santorini is the first I've ever heard of it and I quite like the fact that these places are constantly being renamed as time goes on.

I love the idea of stopping in to Levitha (and may just do that on the way up to Patmos), but my days of appreciating a place like Kos Town, are long gone (am quite keen on going there to windsurf however). As far as Levitha goes, are they a bit pushy as far as wanting you to moor on their moorings? Hasan at Serce Limani is a bit like that, which couple with his eye watering prices as far as wine goes, rather put me off ever heading back there (my bro-in-law chose to anchor at the other end of the bay a week later based on our experiences). I'm happy to share my good fortune occasionally, but do rather resent it when it is taken as a given right!

Cheers BobnLesley on the Delos info. Sad though, as I was quite looking forward to anchoring off of there and listening to the ghosts of old. Guess the Leper Colony at Spinalongha will give off plenty of that though.

I'm now going through my Navionics charts and looking up depths etc... for all the harbours I've posted. Anyone know if most of the harbours in Greece are using lazy lines now?

Cheers, PT.

 

[chrisgee]

Between Nisyros and Patmos, is Levitha, a most delightful, extremely well protected and very beautiful anchorage. It would be a shame to miss it, since you are going so close!

Could not agree more, superb anchorage when there can be chaos all around the outside!

 

[jimbaerselman]

Anyone know if most of the harbours in Greece are using lazy lines now?

Lazy lines are rare, and once laid often get chopped up and left to rot with just a big chain lying across the sea bed 30m off the quayside to catch your anchor.

Mykonos (marina) and Milos (Adhamas) have experimented with them, but I don't know if they have been maintained. Syros (Finikas) looks after theirs. In most other harbours, lazy lines have been privately laid and signal that a local boat has laid claim to that berth! Operational marinas (Samos, Kos) have good lazy lines.

If you're considering a more northerly route (Patmos, lovely quiet anchorages, good hora and monastery) don't miss Fourni. It's a little time-warp gem. Don't use the harbour (too bumpy in northerlies), use the little bay just south, which has a stubby quay.

Yes, you'll pay for a mooring in Levitha. I don't begrudge them that income. The moorings permit more boats to use the small space available, and they were well maintained when I last looked at them (Ooops, 2004!).

Winds don't blow home on the north coast of Crete, although the swell does roll in. Choose your timing for the southerly trip to miss a stronger meltemi phase. The southern coast of Crete will introduce you to some fierce gusts when the bigger meltemi blows. Flat water though.

Whichever route, a lovely trip with lots of contrast between the various islands. I'm feeling very envious!

 

[affinite]

Patmos tip

If mooring in Skala for Patmos monastary take my tip and do not moor on the Western side of the harbour if you can avoid it. It looks ok and there will be many boats moored there but we found that where we moored ,towards the head of the inlet, the fumes from the islands diesel electricity generating station drifted on the prevailing NW wind towards the quay all day & night. SWMBO couldnt smell it but I certainly could !
Have a look on Google Earth at 37 19.77N 26 32.60E - that's the generator building.

On the NE side of the harbour is a concrete jetty and quay. We moved over there and were fine for a couple of nights. Bit further round to town, but out of the stink.

Agree with Jim re Fourni. Lovelly spot with upmarket (but low key) hotel right on beach.

We also tried for Santorini this year but got stuck in Ios instead. Had planned to take the fast Cat from Ios to Santorini but a forecast of a big blow saw us scoot off to Leros instead.

BTW thinking of Ios, if you do moor there, do so well away from the quay. Make sure you are well fendered and check your mast/spreaders are out of step with adjacent boats. The car ferry comes down the inlet at 20kts plus, does a handbrake turn in front of the quay and the wash it creates is like something from a theme park ride. Great entertainment for spectators but no fun on a yacht whilst it lasts (only 15 mins).

 

[chrisgee]

We're looking at cruising to Santorini this coming summer and are wondering if anyone has any insight about cruising Crete?

We have been thinking of clearing out of Marmaris and into Greece at Rhodes, then heading to Alimiya and then on down to Crete. I don't have the Greek Waters Pilot yet (have to wait until the 25th to open it) but in any case, I've found that a lot of the pilot books are not as up to date as posters on here and other forums.

Other ideas are to clear out of Turgutreis, into Greece at Kalymnos and then work our way down from there.

As far as Santorini goes, that part is fixed. SWMBO, will be. I'm hoping to moor in Vlychada, with someone on one of the forums mentioning it has been dredged to 2.5 Mtrs.

Appreciate any info you may have to offer.

You might also find the area south of Paros/Naxos useful for a stop over when the weather is poor.
Called Mikres Kyklades ( JimB will no doubt correct me on the spelling!) or the " back islands" they offer good shelter and beautiful scenery. We particularly like the small island of Iraklia. From here you can get to Ios in a few hours and then South to Santorini etc.

 

[satsuma]

As far as Levitha goes, are they a bit pushy as far as wanting you to moor on their moorings?

I was last there April 2010, and at the time it seemed they only noticed you were there if you went up to the house for something to eat! We were simply asked "are you on a mooring or did you anchor?"
There is plenty of room to anchor in between if you want, but in any event the cost (then) was minimal.

 

[cmedsailor]

Also keep in mind that if necessary or if you want you could visit Lipsoi on your way to Patmos. Very nice and well protected harbour with plenty of space, a few tavernas, rooms to let, supermarket and bakery. I think there's water too.
For fuel not the best place though. As I remember the last time I was there was a fuel station pump operating once a week (!).