Cruising boats with large, open transoms - why?

[rwoofer]

When I bought my RM they were all tillers. That is what they prefer, however customers kept asking for wheels. Should they ignore customers?

And it is why RM still offer tillers as well, if you think like them.

 

[bbg]

I agree with other posters that with a transom like that it would drain quickly if pooped - most of it down that open companionway.

You might think that, but real world experience says differently. The Pogo 12.50 is a cruising derivation (and it really was designed for cruising, not racing) of the 40, which competes in the Open 40 category. Those boats race around the world.

Because of their design, pooping is very unlikely on these kinds of boats.

 

[maby]

I shudder to think of the marina charges with that beam....

We are almost as wide across the bum and we've never come across a marina that takes it into account. Everywhere charged by length - with a possible supplement for multi-hulls. We have been sent away because they didn't have a space wide enough for us, but never charged extra if the space was available.

 

[doug748]

When I bought my RM they were all tillers. That is what they prefer, however customers kept asking for wheels. Should they ignore customers?

And it is why RM still offer tillers as well, if you think like them.

Yes. Personally I would always prefer the tiller.

How did you get on with the RM then, rb_? Was it too lively or not lively enough? What did you feel about the construction?

 

[Greenheart]

I'm sure I'm more comfortable hiking on my dinghy's side-decks, than this helmsman looks, neither sitting nor standing - as if he (or she?) is leaning on those hideous angled seats one sees in stations, apparently designed to prevent anyone getting too comfortable.

When SWMBO saw the stern, she thought this boat must belong to one of those laudable sailing charities which modify boats enabling severely handicapped visitors to get aboard...

Like a lot of modern designs, it reminds me of Spanish properties whose airy half-covered outside areas entirely suit the sun & heat of that climate, and the use they are given...

...I guess the exaggerated shallowness and openness of this cockpit would feel just as appropriate when moored or anchored in UK waters, on at least three weekends per year.

My old Osprey is a Mk2, so there's three feet of aft-deck between the cockpit and the rudder. The Mk3's cockpit is open, right back to the transom. I rather like the idea of all the extra space available in the longer cockpit, and in recent months I've watched enough whopping wakes roll up behind and lift the stern without a drip coming aboard, to believe that even an open transom needn't mean any imminent danger of pooping, if the yacht is of a light-enough design to rise above it. If not, I'd prefer a canoe-stern.

This thread seems a bit daft, like one of my unsolicited, determined defences of having an inside helm. A bit of loud Mediterranean styling has here been defended for its merits in that area of use, while people who routinely sail in cool windy weather under leaden skies, object to the feeling of exposure which such a vessel's crew will probably experience...

...is there any more to it, than that?

 

[Birdseye]

I really like a lot of features of the RM Yachts, but one feature that really doesn't appeal at all is the wide open transom. What is the market appeal of this feature? .

Fashion! All consumer goods are subject to fashion trends including boats. Thats why we have twin wheels rather than one big one. Its why we have fractional rigs. Nothing wrong with that and if you prefer something older and no longer fashionable - well there is nothing to stop you getting the marine equivalent of John Travolta's clothes in Grease

 

[geem]

Fashion! All consumer goods are subject to fashion trends including boats. Thats why we have twin wheels rather than one big one. Its why we have fractional rigs. Nothing wrong with that and if you prefer something older and no longer fashionable - well there is nothing to stop you getting the marine equivalent of John Travolta's clothes in Grease

I know this has been covered elsewhere in previous threads but do these super wide boats with twin wheel have duel station engine controls? if they don't, it would seem to me that you are at a disadvantage when manoeuvring when coming along side a berth if you are using controls on the wrong side of the boat. There are times when I wish I could have one of those supertanker type bridges when you can walk outside and see the edge of the boat! my wheel lives on the middle of the cockpit, its only 28 inch diameter and I can walk around it without climbing over the seats. So unfashionable...

 

[Tranona]

Usually have only one engine control on cheaper boats, but no doubt a second station could be installed fairly easily.

Lots of factors underlying the adoption of wide cockpits and twin wheels - in fact it is mainly prompted by the development of wide sterns for both space and performance reasons. A central wheel gives very poor visibility for the helm, particularly of the lee. Once you accept the need for wide sterns (appreciating not everybody does) then twin wheels and a central walkway make sense and are a much better use of the space. Clearly it introduces other problems such as the difficulty of providing good bracing for helm and crew, but as can be seen by the popularity of such boats, buyers have managed to adapt and in many cases benefit from them.

BTW although I had potentially the choice of such arrangement when buying my new boat, it was not a feature that appealed to me in the size I was buying, but if I had bought the next size up it would not have been a barrier.

 

[prv]

Fashion! All consumer goods are subject to fashion trends including boats. Thats why we have twin wheels rather than one big one.

I think a wheel big enough to be used from the side-decks of these boats would be so absurdly large that it would start to interfere with the boom! The wide stern may well be fashion, but given the stern, the twin wheels become a necessity.

Pete

 

[maby]

I know this has been covered elsewhere in previous threads but do these super wide boats with twin wheel have duel station engine controls? if they don't, it would seem to me that you are at a disadvantage when manoeuvring when coming along side a berth if you are using controls on the wrong side of the boat. There are times when I wish I could have one of those supertanker type bridges when you can walk outside and see the edge of the boat! my wheel lives on the middle of the cockpit, its only 28 inch diameter and I can walk around it without climbing over the seats. So unfashionable...

Ah, but with that wide open transom the approach to mooring changes dramatically. Whenever possible, we go for a finger berth and moor stern to. We fender the stern up with a fat fender on the cleat in the middle of the swim platform and a couple more on each corner plus one midships on each side, then we reverse in slowly and nudge up to the pontoon. With that wide stern, we are not going anywhere unless there is a strong crosswind. I can leave it on tickover astern and one of us steps off onto the pontoon, walks round the side and takes a midship line that has been pre-rigged - get that onto a pontoon cleat and everything is stable, then it's just a case of tying down a couple more lines and killing the engine.

If I'm feeling lazy, I'll use a similar approach for mooring alongside or on a hammer head. Rig a long bow line and bring it all the way aft outside the stanchions and rigging, securing it to the pushpit. Rig a stern line on the same side. Fender up well on that side and on the stern. Reverse up to the pontoon, my crew steps off, secures the stern line to a cleat with a moderate amount of slack and picks up the bow line, staying on the pontoon. I motor slow ahead against the stern line which starts the bow swinging round, my crew helps it round with the long bow line they are holding on the pontoon. Crew hauls the bow most of the way in, secures it to a pontoon, then I cut the engine and crew takes up the slack in the stern line. There's none of this messing about trying to lasso cleats from a high side deck - far more civilised!

 

[rwoofer]

Yes. Personally I would always prefer the tiller.

How did you get on with the RM then, rb_? Was it too lively or not lively enough? What did you feel about the construction?

I really liked the RM.

I only sold it because we were blessed with triplets, which basically meant that any kind of boating activity was out of bounds for a few years. In terms of performance it sails as expected ie. faster than AWBs, but not quite as fast as Pogos which are even more stripped out. I would definitely classify as a fast cruiser rather than a racer that can be cruised, because it is much more setup for shorthanded sailing - although the only race I did in it we won!

I was very positive about the construction on all fronts, but one. Basically plywood is softer than grp/gelcoat, so it is more susceptible to dings. The solution would have been to go for the kevlar outer layer which is an option.

 

[Daydream believer]

I really liked the RM.

I only sold it because we were blessed with triplets, which basically meant that any kind of boating activity was out of bounds for a few years. .

Yes ! I can imagine 3 kids arguing over 2 wheels , One left out and the other 2 fighting over whether they should turn to port or stbd. In that case a camper van might be better

 

[doug748]

I really liked the RM.

I only sold it because we were blessed with triplets, which basically meant that any kind of boating activity was out of bounds for a few years. In terms of performance it sails as expected ie. faster than AWBs, but not quite as fast as Pogos which are even more stripped out. I would definitely classify as a fast cruiser rather than a racer that can be cruised, because it is much more setup for shorthanded sailing - although the only race I did in it we won!

I was very positive about the construction on all fronts, but one. Basically plywood is softer than grp/gelcoat, so it is more susceptible to dings. The solution would have been to go for the kevlar outer layer which is an option.

Bloody hell. That's a big style change in circumstances!
Thanks for the reply.

 

[dunedin]

I too have wondered "why" for cruising boats (even fast cruisers) - other than being fashion and cheaper to build.

This was a factor on our list when looking at boats. And to my mind the lifting stern option is a much better compromise - though a bit more expensive to build and some extra weight (hence why not in race boats).

Even Arcona seems to be a follower of this fashion - the Arcona 380 having a much more open gap than the 370 it replaced. And losing the seat infill the previous design had. I could not see any advantage and considered this a retrograde step.

We now have a lift transom which seems to work well - seat across back when closed (for tactician, viewing chart plotter rather than helming), useful secure dump space underneath used as temporary home for wet warps, buckets etc to dry before stowing in a locker - and just this week the one expensive piece of equipment accidentally dropped, bounced sternwards and would have been gone had it not bounced off the raised stern panel.
Certainly "best of both" for me

 

[Twister_Ken]

I don’t think Yachts are ideal for family trips when we consider their safety. There is always a risk factor in Yachts, and it’s a common thing. When considering for a cruise with family it would be better to take them to any small ship cruises. Last month I had a cruise voyage from Chicago to Rhode Island via Blount Small Ship Adventures with the family and it was a nice one. So it’s always better to take the family to such small ship cruises if they love to do.

And an airliner goes better to windward than any yacht, so why bother sailing?