Cruiser/Racers

The difficulty with multhulls is finding a sufficiently large fleet to give yourself a satisfying level of competition.

A dinghy for racing and a cruiser is one approach (I've gone for a cruiser + OPB racing myself). Do bear in mind that berthing/storage is a significant cost too even if you've just got one boat never mind two. Sports boats don't seem to be cheap if you want something bigger than a dinghy. SB3* owners I know, for example, seem to have as many issues with their wallets being drained as anyone else.

Not heard of any of those models available for charter, but the rules on chartering for racers are different, which allows private owners to charter out boats without coding. So you could just find an owner and make a deal. However, generally, they're more expensive and deposits are way beyond cruising charter rates as there's a lot of expensive gear to break.

The legal framework is light because it assumes that someone chartering for racing knows what they're doing sufficiently well. The owner will also probably only charter to someone who has substantial racing skills. And they usually reserve the right to put an owner's representative on board during the charter.

There are racing boats for charter in the Solent through commercial companies. It varies whether they are coded or not. I've chartered an X332 from Hamble Point Yacht Charters before and I can say they're a reputable company with coded boats. You still pay extra for racing though.


*Called SB20s now but that's another story.
 
I actually should have said skippered charter, but from what you say, it makes no difference as there isn't much on offer.

I know Sunsail do some race chartering, which I'm looking at for next season.

But perhaps crewing would be the best way forward for now...
 
vjmehra said:
From the pointers you've all given me, it may be the case that neither the Sunfast 3200 or First 30 will be suitable, but if by chance anyone knows somewhere that charters either (I'm guessing the First 30 maybe slightly more likely), I wouldn't mind giving one a go, just so I can at least get a better idea.
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Have a feeling that the governor of Sea Ventures in Lymington, jenneau dealer, has a personal 3200 so could prob give you a very extended trial
 
Yacht racing is either very casual or a very expensive learning curve.
Racing offshore needs a lot of organisation. Racing inshore needs a lot of crew, because the corners have to be turned quickly, kite up/down is not leisurely in a two hour race.

I've owned two cruiser-racers, but soon got bored of racing them apart from the RTIR.
I found I could get better racing with much less hassle in smaller boats. If I did it again, I would probably look at some of the 2-handed cruiser racing. Short circuit stuff is better done in x-boats or dinghies.
 
vjmehra said:
In terms of bigger cats, I just assumed they would be out of my budget.
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A firebird cat is mid 30s price wise and you want to see them go!

vjmehra said:
But perhaps crewing would be the best way forward for now...
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It's not a bad idea but it rather depends on your mental make up. For me there is nothing better than being the skipper even if it means I pick up the bills. I don't like being told what to do by other skippers particularly when they are wrong ( ie I disagree).:D

But to go back to what I said earlier, it all depends on what sort of racing you want to do. Without a doubt the best sort for keen racers is one design racing - no handicaps there to bicker over or to use as an excuse. So that means identifying a local fleet and that will decide which sort of boat you get. And it will also be expensive because getting to the front of a one design fleet means the boat has to be as well kitted out as possible within class rules. And it takes work too - one guy I know thinks nothing of spraying on his antifoul and then wet and dry it to get a glass smooth finish. And of course the inside will be as stripped out as allowed so no creature comforts for swmbo.

IRC racing has some similar characteristics with the addition that you want to buy a boat which rates well.

PY racing is completely different provided the club you join operates PY as its supposed to be ie altering handicaps to reflect race results. Thus people can and do race with full cruising kit on board. The handicap adjustment even takes account of crew skills. But to the keen racer all this is a nonsense since as you improve your handicap reduces. Bit like golf where a 20 handicap player can sometimes beat a 2 handicap player.

I race PY in winter and cruise in summer in a boat that I would describe as the modern equivalent of a Contessa 32. The racing is as much social as anything else but it gets me out of the house and helps use what is a significant investment all year round.
 
Presumably, although hassle, there must be a few cruiser/racers that can be fully kitted up for cruising and then stripped out for racing?

I know this may take a few hours, but it may be interesting to look at those options...
 
wotayottie said:
It's not a bad idea but it rather depends on your mental make up. For me there is nothing better than being the skipper even if it means I pick up the bills. I don't like being told what to do by other skippers particularly when they are wrong ( ie I disagree).:D
.
UOTE]

A J105 or Jeaneau 3200 would be perfect for the double handed series, or even solo.
see http://www.offshoresolo.com/ .
Can't blame the skipper then!
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vjmehra said:
Presumably, although hassle, there must be a few cruiser/racers that can be fully kitted up for cruising and then stripped out for racing?

I know this may take a few hours, but it may be interesting to look at those options...
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There are definitely boats that are dual purpose.

However there's a lot to conversion. Even replacing the sails takes a while. Then do you have a stack pack, sprayhood for cruising? How many tools do you carry? Food, crockery, pans, toileteries, cleaners etc? Beer? How much spare gear? Duvets, pillows? All stuff you'll have on a cruiser but wouldn't want for racing. If you're doing just inshore racing you'd slim things down even more. And where do you leave it whilst racing?

Then there's cruising stuff that would be even harder to remove for racing, such as radar, solar panels, wind gen, beefed up domestic battery bank, holding tank, for example. Do you even want midship cleats?

So even if you buy a dual purpose boat how you kit her out really depends upon the purpose(s) you want use the boat for.

As you've probably guessed, there's lots of different types of racing, so it all depends upon what you want to take part in. As the thread shows, Wottayottie is very happy with PY racing, Doris with light-handed racing and I vastly prefer IRC over performance based handicaps. Each to his own, but it does influence what boat you buy.

The advantage of crewing is that you can always step off and join another boat, or indeed buy your own. There's a lot to learn to race well over and above what is needed just to be a competent cruiser, and crewing is the cheapest way to learn that. Plus you can look closely at the models that always seem to be in front of you.
 
vjmehra said:
Lucky I'm not in a rush to buy!

There is clearly far more than I appreciated to consider...
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There is endless fascination in racing. It's obsessive. I do it even when cruising, though then the boat alongside me isnt always aware that we are in a race. Mostly he is though - you can see him starting to tweak his sails as I do the same and SWMBO mutters " oh for Gods sake ......".

It takes me a fulkl day to empty my boat for racing and thats nowhere near the sort of strip down that has been mentioned above.
 
Now you have heaps of good suggestions from the helpful OP's!

I crew on a
Sunfast 32 which must be previous to the 3200 I expect.

Tiller steered,the boat is competitive, and with a good mainsheet person, we never reef the main.
Jibs however are reduced to almost blade if winds are 20kts+

The boat resists broaching very well,and we have a lot of fun.

It would be best as others have suggested to crew on something like you want to buy, in races, to get enough knowledge to avoid embarrassment, (sort of finding out the extent of one's ignorance), no offence intended.
Best of luck!
 
:D
wotayottie said:
There is endless fascination in racing. It's obsessive. I do it even when cruising, though then the boat alongside me isnt always aware that we are in a race. Mostly he is though - you can see him starting to tweak his sails as I do the same and SWMBO mutters " oh for Gods sake ......".

It takes me a fulkl day to empty my boat for racing and thats nowhere near the sort of strip down that has been mentioned above.
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dt4134 said:
First of all, don't underestimate how much of your budget you'll spend on racing sails and gear. You could easily splash out £20,000 on sails...
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Strewth, that's a lot. I replaced my main and headsail on a 30' trimaran last year (which have bigger more complex sails compared to an equivalent sized mono) and the cost was £5.2k for carbon laminates. That price didn't include the asymmetric, but that would not have taken the total to £20k. Neither would a few smaller headsails.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
Strewth, that's a lot. I replaced my main and headsail on a 30' trimaran last year (which have bigger more complex sails compared to an equivalent sized mono) and the cost was £5.2k for carbon laminates. That price didn't include the asymmetric, but that would not have taken the total to £20k. Neither would a few smaller headsails.
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Depends how seriously you want to race and who you go too. Some of the big name racing sailmakers charge quite a premium.

Heavy No.1, Light No.1, No. 3, mainsail, plus maybe four or five spinnakers (of which you're allowed to take out 3 for a given race under IRC). Plus dacron storm jib & delivery/cruising sails. It can soon add up.

PS where did you go for yours? I'm considering a laminate mainsail for cruising and it doesn't sound like you got too bad a price.
 
wotayottie said:
There is endless fascination in racing. It's obsessive. I do it even when cruising, though then the boat alongside me isnt always aware that we are in a race. Mostly he is though - you can see him starting to tweak his sails as I do the same and SWMBO mutters " oh for Gods sake ......".

It takes me a fulkl day to empty my boat for racing and thats nowhere near the sort of strip down that has been mentioned above.
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I thought that it was a given that whenever two boats are sailing in the same direction they are "racing" in the eyes of at least one of them! We don't race, but doesn't everyone measure how they are sailing by reference to the other boats around them - or is it just me?
 
Out of curiosity, just going back to the suggestions people made about multihulls, does anyone have any particular tri/cat models in mind?
 
So I've been doing some more research and came across some very interesting tri's, namely:

Dragonfly
Corsair
Farrier

I've decided that whatever I end up with, it has to be exciting to sail (quick), not just good under a handicap system, which makes the tri's look interesting. Although obviously racing opportunities may be limited and I'd be concerned about short/single handed sailing.

In the mono 30-foot(ish) range I'm struggling to see past the First-30 and Sunfast 3200, having another look at the polars:

http://www.sunfast3200.com/media/ev...gb_vppsun_fast_3200_polaire_site_jeanneau.pdf

http://www.blur.se/images/PolarGraphF30.pdf

The First 30 is actually more impressive than I initially thought in lighter winds, but annoyingly I can't seem to find any data for 20-30knots TWS.

I'm also starting to look at older larger mono's, rather than focusing on the newer/smaller ones.

Of course, I'm along way of deciding (can't even make a decision until next year anyway), so any more tips are greatly appreciated!
 
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