Cruiser/Racers

V

vjmehra

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 Jul 2011
Messages
537
Visit site
I'm looking at 30ish foot cruiser/racers to compare, so far I've started looking into the following:

Elan 310
Jeanneau Sunfast 3200
Beneteau First 30

Are there any other similar boats (I'm presuming its fair to say these 3 are like for like), I should look at?

Also, comparing polar diagrams, the First 30 one I've seen only shows TWS up to 20 knots, I'd be interested to see a diagram up to 30 knots, does anyone have a link (the other two polars go up to 30 and 35 respectively)?
 
Elan 310 is a very modern hull design. Out of those it will be the best performer. I did the same exercise earlier this year at the 36' range and the elan350 was a serious contender.
 
vjmehra said:
I'm looking at 30ish foot cruiser/racers to compare, so far I've started looking into the following:

Elan 310
Jeanneau Sunfast 3200
Beneteau First 30

Are there any other similar boats (I'm presuming its fair to say these 3 are like for like), I should look at?

Also, comparing polar diagrams, the First 30 one I've seen only shows TWS up to 20 knots, I'd be interested to see a diagram up to 30 knots, does anyone have a link (the other two polars go up to 30 and 35 respectively)?
Click to expand...

A friend has recently sold his Dehler 29 which I raced on a couple of times. Seemed very fast, and good value for money.
 
The 3200 is a purpose built shorthanded racer with a useable interior and a different boat from the others. If that's what you are looking for then look no further I would say.
It is well proven and I would love one.

If you have that kind of budget then throw in the J92 and J105.
What about a Pogo 8.5?
 
Are you looking only for new boats? What sort of budget?

How seriously are you looking to race? IRC, I guess? Inshore racing only or do you have an offshore interest?

How important is the cruising aspect? Will you really be doing an annual week or two's cruise?

Do you have a serious racing background with a strong pool of good crew. Do you, for example, have a serious dinght helming background so that you'd have no difficulty with a boat that needs to be sailed in a narrow groove? If you're just getting into maybe worth looking at older boats that are IRC bandits.
 
Wow, loads of resposes, excellent, thank you!

As for the questions:

Budget largely depends on how much we spend on a house, I'm assuming around 100k-120k, if its less then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it :-)

My budget allows me to look at new boats around the 30 foot range (I think), this part is essential to keep the missus happy!

As for a racing background, no I don't have extensive experience at all, my rationale is that there is no point buying an out and out cruiser as I know although she may think she'll come out a lot. The reality is that it will only be when its a flat sea, F3 tops and sunny, hence I may as well get something that I would use more often.

I would envisage that any cruises we do would be a weekend, rather than a week, so I suspect the level of comfort in the boats mentioned is about right for that?

At this stage, no I would not be looking to race offshore, I would just like to get into racing and fast cruising.
 
First of all, don't underestimate how much of your budget you'll spend on racing sails and gear. You could easily splash out £20,000 on sails, and you'll not be much less shocked by the cost of decent blocks & shackles, dyneema etc.

Plus it is not easy to race really well if you don't know more or as much as the crew. If you buy a flash boat you'll need flash crew and it'll be hard to keep good trimmers and a good bowman if you aren't also a good racing helm. Also lower grade crew will not look after you hideously expensive sails & gear quite as well, so will increase your costs.

The boat you listed will be at their best planing downwind in a bit of a blow, but you'll need the skills to handle it.

I'd say go for an older IRC bandit or for an older one design class. If you really do want a new boat in that price range & size then the Mystery 30/Link 30, or whatever they call it these days, seems to be a bit of a bandit. Older boats have the advantage that there be less heartache caused by bumping your way around marks as you learn the subtelties of RRS18.

A Dehler 31, again for example, is quite a good cruiser and sea kindly for her size and they are treated quite kindly by IRC. You can also look on YouTube to see how well they bounce.

My own prejudice is that if you want a really good fast new cruiser that can be raced inshore & offshore, then worth thinking of going a few feet longer and going for an Arcona 340. You wouldn't want to scratch the sides though.
 
Last edited:
vjmehra said:
Wow, loads of resposes, excellent, thank you!

As for the questions:

Budget largely depends on how much we spend on a house, I'm assuming around 100k-120k, if its less then I'll cross that bridge when I come to it :-)

My budget allows me to look at new boats around the 30 foot range (I think), this part is essential to keep the missus happy!

As for a racing background, no I don't have extensive experience at all, my rationale is that there is no point buying an out and out cruiser as I know although she may think she'll come out a lot. The reality is that it will only be when its a flat sea, F3 tops and sunny, hence I may as well get something that I would use more often.

I would envisage that any cruises we do would be a weekend, rather than a week, so I suspect the level of comfort in the boats mentioned is about right for that?

At this stage, no I would not be looking to race offshore, I would just like to get into racing and fast cruising.
Click to expand...

You could get a fully loaded new Dehler 32 for that. Very nice, although all the cruiser racers in that market sector are very lightly built. I guess thats why they go quickly.
 
Great thanks, this is the kind of stuff I need to understand, as I'm probably making too many assumptions.

If I went older, which sounds like the sensible option from what youre saying, what sort of age boat would I be looking at if I didnt want to have a nasty repair bill pretty soon after purchase?
 
Ex-SolentBoy said:
........although all the cruiser racers in that market sector are very lightly built. I guess thats why they go quickly.
Click to expand...

Blimey, that sounds a bit bleak.

Perhaps vjmehra would be better looking a club type racing and a more cruisey design spec.

I was interested to see that the Mystery 30 could cut it at IRC. Though not the interior to impress her indoors I would guess.
 
vjmehra said:
Great thanks, this is the kind of stuff I need to understand, as I'm probably making too many assumptions.

If I went older, which sounds like the sensible option from what youre saying, what sort of age boat would I be looking at if I didnt want to have a nasty repair bill pretty soon after purchase?
Click to expand...

In many ways, age is irrelevant regarding a nasty repair bill, what you need is a good survey. There would be a fair amount to spend cosmetically on an older boat and there are usually systems that have to be replaced. Each might be a smaller item, but they do add up.

If you were looking at cruising, then I'd say get the example you want that has been best looked after and has the most newish or good quality gear. For racing, lots of good quality gear is also known as heavy junk.

What you're looking for in an older boat for racing is one where the current owner has made modifications for better sailing handling (e.g. upgraded winches, kicker lead back on both sides so can easily be dumped from the windward rail, decent towing cars, decent twin foil, dyneema halyards in good condition, laminate sails in good condition with a few spinnaker, decent gear for the spinnaker, including a good pole, etc. etc.). They're expensive to do from scratch if you just buy a boat that has only been set up for cruising. Easy to spot if you're from a racing background but hard to describe in a post.

As a wildcard you could also look at something like an IOR half-tonner. There's a bit of a revival (not as pronounced as for quarter tonners yet). Not all have reasonable accommodation, or indeed any more than is necessary for an IRC measurer to tick the box, but some do have reasonable cruising accommodation and they are generally quite well set up for racing. Just don't do a Fastnet in one (actually they wouldn't let you these days).
 
Personally, i'd say hydrodynamics have moved on so if you want a fast boat buy something newer, but if value for money is the main goal then something a few years old on the second hand market.
Buying a secondhand performance boat also might mean it's been sailed hard (especially if it's been raced), so you'll definitely want to get a good survey and ensure the sails / rigging etc is only a few years old at most.
Someone said a POGO (8.50).. if you really want a boat that sails well then these are superb boats, but they are basic inside.

The problem you will have is that everyone thinks their boat is better (especially if you talk to dealers). Do the research, check out which boats (performance cruisers) are winning races, make a short list and see all of them.
 
vjmehra said:
I'm looking at 30ish foot cruiser/racers to compare, so far I've started looking into the following:

Elan 310
Jeanneau Sunfast 3200
Beneteau First 30

Are there any other similar boats (I'm presuming its fair to say these 3 are like for like), I should look at?

Also, comparing polar diagrams, the First 30 one I've seen only shows TWS up to 20 knots, I'd be interested to see a diagram up to 30 knots, does anyone have a link (the other two polars go up to 30 and 35 respectively)?
Click to expand...

DTD4134 is undoubtedly right if you want to race seriously - it takes lots of money for serious bits of kit and most critical of all you need to get and keep a good crew. That in turn means going for it in the sense of campaigning the boat most all of the year. You wont get the crew or the results if you are doing a few races at the start and end of the season and cruising with SWMBO in the summer weekends.

So before you decide on a boat you really need to think realistically about what sort of racing you want to do. There are a lot of us who enjoy some racing ( been at it today myself and came second :eek:) under a PY handicap and using ordinary sails on a cruising boat. Thats autumn, winter and early spring. The rest of the time is cruising with my wife. But if you fancy this sort of sailing then you need to give more serious consideration to the boat as something to live onboard. Kit like fridges, heaters, windlasses, and a decent amount of chain all matter more when cruising than when purely racing.

But there is a third aspect to your question. If you want to sail fast then forget boats like Elans and get yourself a multihull. Problem there is that multihull racing is far more limited to a few big centres - none at all up here. But when you have sailed a 30 ft trimaran at 19 knots steady for mile after mile, you realise that boats like the above mono cruiser racers are really a bit slow.
 
ridgy said:
If you have that kind of budget then throw in the J92 and J105.
What about a Pogo 8.5?
Click to expand...

there is a well sorted J105 for,sale in haslar for £k mid fifties. Tart up the interior slightly to keep the missus happy and you have loads in hand on your budget. They race v well and IRC seems to be very kind. Depends on whether it is cruisey enuf for your needs.
 
Thanks for all the responsese, you've given me a lot of things to look into, which is good!

Just to focus on the multihull point, I did consider maybe getting two seperate boats, something like a dart 18 & then a cruiser as well.

In terms of bigger cats, I just assumed they would be out of my budget.

From the pointers you've all given me, it may be the case that neither the Sunfast 3200 or First 30 will be suitable, but if by chance anyone knows somewhere that charters either (I'm guessing the First 30 maybe slightly more likely), I wouldn't mind giving one a go, just so I can at least get a better idea.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top