Cruise Ship designs

The whole design is based on colossal arrogance: You plonk a high rise block of sleeping boxes on a barge with a pointy end, and drive it v quickly ( usually at night) so that each morning the inhabitants of beautiful wee islands can wake up to gaze upwards and in awe at said mobile monstrosity dwarfing the environment.

Even better you whizz really close past peoples windows, all lit up and with the horns blaring. Bit Essex innit

Keep them from coming within 5 miles of the shore and the hull breach threat is pretty much solved. Simples ( but unprofitables).

If there had been no loss of life I would say : Hooray, one less ugly motherfricker .
 
PaulJS said:
I've no doubt whatsoever that the Concordia was fully compliant with all the relevant build standards, which would have included provision for emergency power and pumping, but these standards are intended to mitigate against theoretical and credible risks which did not include the damage incurred by what appears to be the sheer imbecilic stupidity of the Captain and his complete disregard of the safety of thousands of passengers whose safety was his responsibilty.
Of course she would have been built and operated as cost-effectively (edit: cheaply :end edit) as possible...:(
Click to expand...

+1
It is hardly reasonable to design for imbecilic stupidity. If we did aeroplanes would not exist.
Millions of cars are on the road, all depend on drivers not exhibiting such stupidity and most do not crash.
A ships captain is carefully selected from a trained staff, so imbecilic stupidity should not have to be a factor.
 
I don’t think you can put this down to simple stupidity I think it’s more a case of “familiarity breeds contempt” or complacency, they had done this sort of fly past many times and always got away with it and assumed everything would be fine again, this unfortunately is a fairly common trait in people.

As for the behaviour captain after the incident you never really know how someone will react to a genuine emergency until it happens, you can train and train as much as you like but when training no matter how realistic it is its still just a drill and deep down you know that. It’s probably quite likely that he had never been in a real life or death situation before and it sounds like part of him just shut down, I’ve seen this happen a couple of times now when before the incident you would have said that the people involved were nailed on to be able to cope and they just completely froze and were simply not able to function under the stress of it being a real situation rather than a training exercise.

In terms of cruise ship design these days they all follow pretty much the same basic layout, below the water line you have 3 decks and the bilge and above the water line you will have between 8 to 12 decks depending on the individual ship, they do have a keel which is about 2.5 to 3 ft deep, I’ve got some photos of the bottom of P&O’s Adonia somewhere from when we did the refit on her in 2002 I’ll post them when I find them.
 
dunedin said:
What about collision damage ? Hardly unlikely with enough ships moving in some very busy waters
Click to expand...

Collision damage is easier to deal with than hitting a rock, or an iceberg, at cruising speed.

This has been true for a hundred years now.

A collision will commonly result in the bow of one ship contacting the side of the other (not always, I do recall one collision in mid-Pacific in the early 80's where two ships met stem to stem!) and in general that will result in a bow-shaped notch in the side of the other ship.

If there is a very big difference in size and hence momentum between the two ships the one struck may be cut in two (RMS Queen Mary / HMS Curacao) but in general we get a bow shaped notch which will open one or at most two compartments to the sea.

Simplifying colossally, cargo ships are designed to stay afloat with one compartment flooded and passenger ships are designed to stay afloat with two compartments flooded.

In other words, sinking due to collision damage is something that designers can attempt to prevent, or at least to make less likely.

The can opener effect of having a rock or an iceberg scrape along a ship's side cannot be designed out, not on April 15th 1912 or on January 13th 2012.
 
Minn said:
Collision damage is easier to deal with than hitting a rock, or an iceberg, at cruising speed.

This has been true for a hundred years now.

A collision will commonly result in the bow of one ship contacting the side of the other (not always, I do recall one collision in mid-Pacific in the early 80's where two ships met stem to stem!) and in general that will result in a bow-shaped notch in the side of the other ship.

If there is a very big difference in size and hence momentum between the two ships the one struck may be cut in two (RMS Queen Mary / HMS Curacao) but in general we get a bow shaped notch which will open one or at most two compartments to the sea.

Simplifying colossally, cargo ships are designed to stay afloat with one compartment flooded and passenger ships are designed to stay afloat with two compartments flooded.

In other words, sinking due to collision damage is something that designers can attempt to prevent, or at least to make less likely.

The can opener effect of having a rock or an iceberg scrape along a ship's side cannot be designed out, not on April 15th 1912 or on January 13th 2012.
Click to expand...

+1
 
haydude said:
As I understand the sudden power loss was due to the high power cables shorting in water and the breakers activating, in which case the engine running would not make a difference.
In fact power was restored, but eventually the circuits gave up again for the same reason.

What i found shocking is:

1) the proportion between wet hull and the height and number of decks above water.
2) the absolutely flat bottom, no wonder why it drifted sideways forever during the emergency turn.
Click to expand...

I'm quite sure someone (like the class bureau) checked the stability curve.
Large ships need flat bottoms to be able to built and dock them.
 
Flapjack said:
I

In terms of cruise ship design these days they all follow pretty much the same basic layout, below the water line you have 3 decks and the bilge and above the water line you will have between 8 to 12 decks depending on the individual ship, they do have a keel which is about 2.5 to 3 ft deep, I’ve got some photos of the bottom of P&O’s Adonia somewhere from when we did the refit on her in 2002 I’ll post them when I find them.
Click to expand...

Didn't I see a stabiliser on the upturned hull? Why was that out in such calm conditions? And so close to obstructions? Did the opposite stabiliser, if out, have some bearing on the hull "snagging" the shore?

Concerning stability, you may know that modern cruise liners have tanks for maintaining upright posture, especially useful when faced with beam weather.

I am sad to see the holding company (Carnival) distancing itself so quickly from the plight of those who have lost much, and a great deal more than just a truncated cruise. If true, the instruction to file in Italy would be Carnival's worst decision to date. I recall a certain UK oil company that is being ground daily in the USA courts for an oilspill in the Gulf of Mexico. USA's reputation for even handed treatment takes another hit on the rocks!

Is the captain an idiot? Certainly looks like that, but who put him there? If the board of Carnival is looking into the lessons of this affair it is to question the executives who vetted this man to command such a ship. Would they say today they were satisfied with their decision: on the basis of comments made by crew and previous superior officers, this captain should have stayed behind the bar where he seemed most at home.

What makes a Grade 1 captain? I had the pleasure last autumn of a trip two ways across the Atlantic with Cunard's QE, Captn Christopher Wells at the helm. I talked with him on 3 occasions. In all my experience of meeting captains of industry and politicians, people of quality and charlatans, I reckon you develop a feel for the man opposite you. Wells is just outstanding, totally on top of his game, continuously feeling the pulse of the situation even when socialising with a glass of orange in his hand. His class manoeuvre into dock in NY against a strong tide was just inspiring! A man I would (and did) entrust with the life of my wife and child over 8000 miles of open sea.

This is a standard Carnival (recent acquirers of Cunard) should go for: employing someone who fits a "social profile" to the detriment of his sailing skills, or stability of character, is not the way.

PWG
 
Last edited:
Just being a sort of devil's advocate here....
Given this apparent enthusiasm for conventional 'monomaran' cruise ships to tip over at the first opportunity when they suffer water ingress, could it be time to start thinking 'outside the box' again re ship hull forms and stability?

How about looking again at catamarans and SWATHs?

Radisson Diamond was a fairly famous SWATH cruise ship :
http://www.castlesoftheseas.nl/radisson-diamond.html
She is a comparative tiddler really, at 'only' 345 passengers and 177 crew, yet she is already almost on the Panamax limit on beam (which is approx 32 m / 106'), hence anything bigger would have to go around the Horn or the Cape to seek new horizons.

But in reality, perhaps it is better to just keep an eagle eye on where the ship is going, while monitoring depth and proximity to hard stuff that likes to chew up steel..... :)
 
If I remember correctly, the problem with passenger ship design is making them too stable. Whilst a very stable cruise ship might be able to attract many first time cruisers, not many will want to go back. Cats and SWATHs whilst stable when intact, it means that loosing water plane area due to a compartment flooding would have a more substantial loss of stability. So the compartments have to be smaller and more numerous. There is also issue of increased structural complexity and lower angles of down flooding. Quite frankly having been on a number of ferries and dive support ships in rough weather, I been most frightened on a SWATH.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top