Crossing the North Sea

[oGaryo]

Depends where your going.

Round the Solent or anywhere else familiar I don't do a passage plan.

If I'm going a long way or somewhere I've never been before I certainly look up all the details in the almanac before I go , work out what time I want to get there and get frequencies or details for mooring plus the pilotage on how to get in. Plotter or not, once you have done that it doesn't take much to just note it down.

me too but still wouldn't use paper to do the passage planning or pilotage other than having the chart at the helm to cross check where I was in relation to what the plotter was telling me when making way

again, sorry for the thread drift

 

[Solitaire]

mmmmm, sorry for the thread drift but in an electronic age where electronic systems back up electronic systems within all manner of critical applications, do we really need to keep pushing the 'good old paper' chart as a must do thing?. What's wrong with having a handheld, IPAD, PC etc as a back up to the primary nav system?

Because I had a complete electrical failure on a Fleming 55 at 03.30 in a Force 6 crossing the North Sea. this included the Glendenning system, so no throttle control. I did in fact have a handheld Garmin which I always take on trips because things fail. I still have the chart where the fix was recorded in pen. Trust electronics? Not me! I suggest you leave the Solent and do some proper boating! Oh, I also had with me an ex navigator commander from the RY Britannia to keep pace while I sorted out the problem.

 

[oGaryo]

Because I had a complete electrical failure on a Fleming 55 at 03.30 in a Force 6 crossing the North Sea. this included the Glendenning system, so no throttle control. I did in fact have a handheld Garmin which I always take on trips because things fail. I still have the chart where the fix was recorded in pen. Trust electronics? Not me! I suggest you leave the Solent and do some proper boating! Oh, I also had with me an ex navigator commander from the RY Britannia to keep pace while I sorted out the problem.

oh dear, that red bit was uncalled for!!!! anyways, your answer still doesn't stack up to be honest even with the uncalled for shot across the bows it doesn't need me to have gone on a passge of the likes you've mentioned above to know there's a multitude of life and death applications that are pure electronic these days for first, second, third back up with paper firmly in the back pocket just in case, very rarely used. I really don't understand why boating tuition continues to press home the use of paper charts, sorry

 

[Solitaire]

I really don't understand why boating tuition continues to press home the use of paper charts, sorry

Says it all! Ignorance is one thing.....................................

 

[oGaryo]

Says it all! Ignorance is one thing.....................................

so you concede you're wrong then..........................

 

[Tender_aft]

so you concede you're wrong then..........................

I suspect Remy is involved in this massive thread drift. Could you please start a new thread on this subject and then I will join in....or just stay on the OPs original subject. (It was funny at first but now it isn't).

It's OK, I started it myself....I guess everyone else is asleep/comatosed.

 

[oGaryo]

I suspect Remy is involved in this massive thread drift. Could you please start a new thread on this subject and then I will join in....or just stay on the OPs original subject. (It was funny at first but now it isn't).

It's OK, I started it myself....I guess everyone else is asleep/comatosed.

sadly, no Remy tonight and thanks for pulling me up on the thread drift, good call

 

[Tender_aft]

Way back in history (a couple of days ago), I was hoping for some good go east young man responses to this one. Is there anyone out there for whom the North Sea is their playground (not work, play). Having messed about in Dutch waters for several years Hoorn and Monnickendam come to mind, but they are inland. In Holland there is always items on the islands by the Waddenzee for example. Anybody been there?

...and what about the North Sea or does everyone nip across to Belgium and work their way up? Surely there is the odd Geordie that goes straight to Denmark or way further north than that?

 

[paultallett]

I think if I was crossing the North Sea, I'd work up a course from the chart. Then plot that in to my iPhone, wife's iPhone, iPad, pc etc..... You can't be too safe!!

I hear what your saying Gary and I think all us solent boaters pretty much use electronic as main means now (I'm at the point where mark 1 eye ball does most of it) but the small print in my insurance stipulates charts onboard and passage plan being needed. It doesn't say what kind of passage plan so back of a fag packet A to C via B could count, I guess it's a prudent and safe way to go to sea.

Use electronics but when in pastures new...... Be ready with the paper.

 

[Greg2]

We are east coast based so you could say that the North Sea is our playground. Only been to Holland once but what a great place. As my (then) young lad said as we approached Edam 'Its a boaters paradise Dad'. That just about sums it up....boating is a national pastime and the ability to cruise extensively inland is truly superb.

We went straight across from Lowestoft to Ijmuiden, which us about 120 miles. From there we went through the lock into he North Sea canal to Amsterdam and then into the Markermeer. We visited various places including Edam (lovely), Hoorn, Elburg and Spakenburg. Due to weather we headed south to Rotterdam via the inland waterways and then to Stellendam to try to get a better angle for the return trip to tackle the strong headwinds that were blowing all week. It didn't work as we turned back an hour out and had to leave the boat and return the following week to collect it.

Overall, it is a truly superb cruising ground and we will return (many east coast boaters go far more regularly). Coming from the south you be the option of Belgium and going inland up to Holland or you could run up to southern Holland before going inland.

Bit of a précis but hope it helps.

Edit
Just re-read your last post....I haven't been further north than Ijmuiden by sea and whilst I know some (mainly yachties) do it seems the more usual route is inland and then head north via the Ijesselmeer and then inside the islands round to Denmark.

 

[burgundyben]

I still have the chart where the fix was recorded in pen

Pen!! I'd have got a right telling off from Alison Noice had I used a pen on a chart.

 

[oGaryo]

I think if I was crossing the North Sea, I'd work up a course from the chart. Then plot that in to my iPhone, wife's iPhone, iPad, pc etc..... You can't be too safe!!

I hear what your saying Gary and I think all us solent boaters pretty much use electronic as main means now (I'm at the point where mark 1 eye ball does most of it) but the small print in my insurance stipulates charts onboard and passage plan being needed. It doesn't say what kind of passage plan so back of a fag packet A to C via B could count, I guess it's a prudent and safe way to go to sea.

Use electronics but when in pastures new...... Be ready with the paper.

There's a whole new thread on the topic Paul started by tender aft after he got all upset about me thread drifting this one consensus overall apart from those with a vested interest (in my opinion) in the continuation of paper is that electronics are the way to go as the primary means of navigation which for me, adds to the frustration of fiddling with rulers, pencils, dividers and large bits of paper the majority of the time when in the classroom. I'd much prefer to learn on the media I am most likely to use with a bit of add on tuition on paper. Anyways, the other thread has it all mate, including god, Noah and the parting of waves, happy reading

 

[paultallett]

There's a whole new thread on the topic Paul started by tender aft after he got all upset about me thread drifting this one consensus overall apart from those with a vested interest (in my opinion) in the continuation of paper is that electronics are the way to go as the primary means of navigation which for me, adds to the frustration of fiddling with rulers, pencils, dividers and large bits of paper the majority of the time when in the classroom. I'd much prefer to learn on the media I am most likely to use with a bit of add on tuition on paper. Anyways, the other thread has it all mate, including god, Noah and the parting of waves, happy reading

I'll take a gander later...... With a brandy in hand.

 

[IDAMAY]

A bit confused about what this thread is about but, assuming the OP is still interested, we went from Chichester to Norway and back this season. Our passages took in France, Belgium (no probs with red diesel), Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. Quite the best boating in almost 20 years of long(ish) distance cruising.

If interested an account of the trip can be found at:

www.oceanstarblog.co.uk

If you decide to go east, whether across the North Sea or otherwise you will find a warm welcome and a great boating set up.

Richard.

 

[piratos]

Way back in history (a couple of days ago), I was hoping for some good go east young man responses to this one. Is there anyone out there for whom the North Sea is their playground (not work, play). Having messed about in Dutch waters for several years Hoorn and Monnickendam come to mind, but they are inland. In Holland there is always items on the islands by the Waddenzee for example. Anybody been there?

...and what about the North Sea or does everyone nip across to Belgium and work their way up? Surely there is the odd Geordie that goes straight to Denmark or way further north than that?

Hi,
My playground is normally the southern Baltic, and with regular trips through the Eider/Kiel Canal to the North Sea.

Have been cruising the Islands north of the Kiel Canal and only in July this year the islands south of the Kiel Canal, into northern Holland, and - was supposed to go out into the Waddenzee and heading back north - until I realized there was a gap where I had neither paper charts nor electronic cover, so I went from Groningen the other way east to the Ems, only to find out a bridge could not be opened. So NO I have not been to Waddenzee.

The islands along the german Coast are all tidal, but otherwise easy to navigate. Navigation behind the islands in the very shallow area is not recomendable unless you are very familiar with this kind of Watttrading. And I would suggest only boats built for regular being aground !

If you have a good weather forecast this area is as safe as anywhere else, and should you have to stay a day longer somewhere its not the worst that can happen.

As to the discussion about electronic or paper charts - please note that the fairways are "never" as in the chart. They fairways change all the time, and therefore the buys are moved to suit the fairway. The start of the fairway is fixed - the rest is not, but its easy to follow.

whenever you see british boats aproaching a marina they call on the vhf - but nobody is listening. Just aproach the port/marina safely, find a place to berth (free berths may be marked with a green sign, but if the berth is not free it should have a red sign)

To reach the Baltic Sea the Kiel Canal is not the only option - enter the Eider at Eidersperrwerk (north of Busum) and you will rech the Kiel Canal just west of Rendsburg.

Diesel cost at the moment eur 1,35 roadside but marinas will charge you min eur 1,50 - Pass Helgoland west of the river Elbe and you pay just ard eur 1,05/1,10 (Taxfree and the Diesel is NOT red)

Comming from UK the open sea passage doesnt need to be more than 100 miles. Whatever you are trading at 8 or 20 knots its still just a day trip. The west coast of Denmark has some fishery ports as stopovers, but then there is ofcourse still the entrance tothe Baltic via the Limfjord.

Bon Voyage

 

[Tender_aft]

A bit confused about what this thread is about but, assuming the OP is still interested, we went from Chichester to Norway and back this season. Our passages took in France, Belgium (no probs with red diesel), Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. Quite the best boating in almost 20 years of long(ish) distance cruising.

If interested an account of the trip can be found at:

www.oceanstarblog.co.uk

If you decide to go east, whether across the North Sea or otherwise you will find a warm welcome and a great boating set up.

Richard.

That's looks like a great blog (and a lovely boat). I'll settle down one evening and read it cover to cover. One thing I couldn't find was some details about your boat though (is it there, did I miss it?)

 

[DAKA]

You hear a lot of stories of Solent based owners heading west, but I never seem to hear of people doing extended cruises going east, has anyone done any cruising and gone across the North Sea, I would be really interested to know what routes or itineraries you undertook, many thanks

OK if we are back on thread at last...........

Crossing at Dover makes good sense,IMHO Newport / Blankenberg make good overnighters.
IMHO the coast is a little flat so it makes sense to go inland from Vlissingham (no airdraft worries) if you go up the coast to Imuijen watch out for the TSS off Maas ?mound? (need permission to cross).

As to paper charts, no way............. they are not even in English !

We very nearly grounded in the Markermeer in 30cm of water @25knots , the double dutch metric chart clearly said depth 3 (closer inspection revealed it was in decimals, ten centimetres , what is all that about ?)

Use your plotter and you will be fine

 

[lanerboy]

A bit confused about what this thread is about but,

Yes me too but Ogary is very good at hijacking a thread and turning it into something else

 

[paul salliss]

One of the best posts ever many thanks to Idamay

 

[Tender_aft]

One of the best posts ever many thanks to Idamay

+1

I've read the overview now. It is a good blog.