Crossing Shipping Lanes

[RobbieW]

If I may take this on a tangent slightly, just how busy are these lanes really? I mean if you sat there watching for say an hour, how many would pass?

Looking at MarineTraffic just now if you were between Cherbourg and the Needles you'd see about 15 ships going E>W & 10 W>E over an hour, mostly concentrated on the lines linking the W end of the 'Dover' TSS and the E end of the Casquets TSS. Given each 'lane' is about 5 miles wide, so will take about an hour to cross, I'd say thats fairly typical - then theres the traffic that not following the lanes!

 

[lpdsn]

Found this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/440723/MGN_364.pdf

It was news to me that Rule 10 doesn't apply in precautionary areas within TSS schemes. Of course that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea to wander through them.

 

[Uricanejack]

My understanding is as follows:

Rule 18 says that if a collision situation develops, you must stand on (until it's clear that the ship isn't taking action) and the ship must keep clear of you. However, Rule 10 says that you must not impede the ship, which I tend to think means ensuring that a collision situation doesn't arise in the first place. If you fail in this, Rule 18 applies.

A couple of other points, though:

Is causing a ship to make one course alteration of say 5º really "impeding" it, assuming this doesn't cause it to conflict with any other traffic? Arguably not, but I don't know what the case law says.

Ships like to set up their passing situations many miles out, far enough that a yachtsman with binos cannot yet predict the CPA situation with any accuracy, and certainly cannot detect a course change of a few degrees. Hence if you want to (as I've heard a professional watchkeeper quoted) "participate meaningfully in traffic rather than being mere flotsam" you really need either AIS or skilled operation of radar.

Pete

No a 5 degree alteration would probably not be impeded. The rules are never specific about what is or is not enough. it depends on the circumstances. 5 degrees 5 miles away or 5 degrees 5 cables away.

This is a rule which has toughened up since I first learned them. Original it didn't exist. Then of course it did. Now it means more.

Not impede, is not give way. The older (Back in the 80s) interpretation the point when risk of collision or a close quarters situation to the straight requirement regular of rules. In other words do not impede ended when a vessel had been impeded and became give way with the impeding vessel now stand on.

(The following item of Guidance was approved in 1982 by the Maritime Safety Committee; ‘When a vessel is required not to impede the passage of another vessel, such a vessel shall so far as practicable navigate in such a way as to avoid the development of risk of collision. If, however, a situation has developed so as to involve risk of collision, the relevant Steering and Sailing Rules shall be complied with.’) This has now been superseded.

Rule 8 was changed in 1987. Now the requirement to ," not impede" continues after risk of collision is deemed to exist. Supposedly to simplify the requirement. Requiring the vessel required not to impede to still take action involving possibly changes in course and or speed. Rather than change from a vessel required to act by possibly changing course and or speed to a vessel required to stand on. And Maintain course and speed.

Part F was added to Rule 8 Action to avoid collision in 1987.

F (i) A Vesel which, by any of these rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel.

(ii) A vessel required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel is not relieved of this obligation if approaching the other vessel so as to involve risk of collision and shall, when taking action, have full regard to the action which may be required by the rules of this Part.

(iii) A vessel the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision

 

[Robin]

Referring specifically to TSS (ie whilst crossing from Salcombe to Channel Islands)

Easy Peasy put an extra WPT in tp pass just west of the west end of Casquets TSS and therefore take a little hitch right of the straight line route. You will cross 'lanes' in as much as the ones on the straight line route from Ushant TSS to Casquets, but will stay away from the TSS itself. Normal Colregs then appy to all. I'm assuming you will be heading for St Peter Port GY. so can chose to go via the north or south end of the island according to tidal streams at the time. .

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

10 (h) A vessel not using a traffic separation scheme shall avoid it by as wide a margin as is practicable.

If you arent using the TSS go round it.
Which asks what is 10 (c) about:
10 (c) A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow.

Since, if you are not using the TSS you wont be there then this must be a vessel that is using it and crossing it, or more clearly a vessel that is exiting the TSS on the "wrong" side.

 

[Uricanejack]

This has exercised my mind for a while...a bit like crossing a six lane highway on your hands and knees.

I am concerned about my ability to pick a path at 5 knots at 90' to lines of bulk carriers doing 20 knots

Obviously AIS and radar make it easier, but this forum is full of old salts who look down their noses at over reliance on instruments

So - as I plan my first channel crossing, any tips? Just wait until there is a huge gap?

First Tip don't worry. It can be busy but it not quite as a bad as your hands and knees on the highway. Most of the ships have an average more like 15 rather than 20 knots some are only 10 some 20.
They do have a tendency to get into groups who knows why. with gaps between. Its just a weird mathematical or statistical fact.

If you have AIS and or RADAR good if not don't worry about it. Bring a pair of binos, I like to have a hand bearing compass with me fancy gadgets or not. AIS will help. So do GPS and Plotters.

I would plan it out on a chart just the same. Make a not of some of the big lights, light vessels(showing my age probably all floats now) buoys and marks you may see on route. Particularly the one you might see on the other side.

Figure out a rough ETA for when you will get to where you want to cross the traffic lanes, How roughly long it will take you to get across the whole thing, first lane, the separation zone, and the next lane,
Don't expect those times to work out. traffic will possibly even probably cause delays.

Figure out the tide and current ahead of time and get the correct pages for tide and current atlas.
Not crossing the lanes cross on a heading based on the lane direction and what you are steering not making good. Just go a bit further up or down to allow for what it will do.

A RADAR reflector is good idea. I think they help. Some people claim they don't work, They definitely don't work if you don't have one.
Make sure your nav lights a working and bright.

Plan out you route pick a nice day (or night) where poor vis is not expected. Not a big deal if it is but no need to add it to your worries first time.
Plan your route. If the wind is light or unfavourable re crossing the lanes at a reasonable speed and course. drop the sail and put motor on till across the lanes.

When you get to the lanes make your intentions obvious. cross at 90. Not just because its the rule. Because its easy. Start your 90 well out from the edge of the lanes. Not right at the edge.
If you see a group of ships coming head for the back marker and wait for the gap.
Prior to the edge alter to pass astern, make your alterations large and easy to see.
Once you get into a lane if you find you need to alter. turn 90 degrees so you are going with not against the traffic. let it pass then turn back to go across. Or slow down, stop and wait.
In the separation zone alter to pass astern of any vessels. again wait for the last one on the group. go for the gap.

A rule of thumb or tip. ( AIS might be a big help guessing the seeds)

If you cant cross at least 1 cable ahead for every knot of speed of an approaching ship. Go behind it.
ie 10 cross a minimum 1 mile ahead. 20 Knots 2 miles

Crossing Any distance behind it is good.

If you have AIS and RADAR don't be tempted to use them to cut margins. and only make minimums.

Have a nice day and enjoy it. Once you have done it you will realise it was fun.

 

[Uricanejack]

Referring specifically to TSS (ie whilst crossing from Salcombe to Channel Islands)

Despite what other might say.

The Channel is quite busy. Yes the actual adopted TSS are only in some parts. Rule 10 only applies in adopted TSS. The bits between the TSS are not TSS Rule 10 does not apply.
All the rest Do. 1 to 8 11 up

If you get a chance to look at the passage chart for the Channel you will notice the arrows for general stream of traffic.
The large scale charts have the same magenta arrows for the traffic between the TSS.
The Traffic is still there, Still doing the same thing, In the same Groups, Similar numbers. They do tend to separate and head to or from lands end or Ushant.

Your best bet is to continue to treat it much the same. Do not impede, Avoid impeding. Cross quickly at close to 90.
While I would be less concerned about the 90. I would still want to avoid going against the stream.
I would try and avoid the confusion which is possible at 45 or less if I was crossing.

Some body will be along to tell me I am wrong about the not impeding and you should just stand on if its not an adopted TSS. And Rule 10 does not apply.

I will point out rule 2 still does. Nothing in these rules shall exonerate a plonker from not using The Ordinary Practice of Seamen.
So do all the others.
But Rule 2 Trumps them All.

 

[Uricanejack]

10 (h) A vessel not using a traffic separation scheme shall avoid it by as wide a margin as is practicable.

If you arent using the TSS go round it.
Which asks what is 10 (c) about:
10 (c) A vessel shall, so far as practicable, avoid crossing traffic lanes but if obliged to do so shall cross on a heading as nearly as practicable at right angles to the general direction of traffic flow.

Since, if you are not using the TSS you wont be there then this must be a vessel that is using it and crossing it, or more clearly a vessel that is exiting the TSS on the "wrong" side.

Using.
Joining.
Leaving.
Crossing.
Are all different things. Using covers all of the other 3.

To be not Using a vessel would have to be not Joining, leaving or crossing.

If not doing any of the above the vessel is required to avoid by as wide a margin. This would usually mean use the inshore traffic zone.

 

[shaunksb]

Gawd, you lot worry me, you really do.

In practice it is very difficult for a 40' sailing vessel to impede a large vessel using a TSS.

Impede means making them make a significant alteration to speed or course.

Those big white flappy things announce your presence as a WAFI to the OOW on the bridge from a long way back. He or she will take early action to avoid you spoiling their day before you've probably realised they are a threat.

In order to help them all you have to do is sail a straight line at a steady speed.

You emphatically do not need to dart about, speeding up or slowing down, looking for a "gap" because by the time you get to the gap it will be filled by the next ship. They will then run you down on principle just for being an 4rse even if it means they have a lot of paperwork to fill in.

Just keep it simple ehh?

_______________________

 

[Robert Wilson]

I haven't diligently read all the above posts, but one thing strikes me.
If a simple question can produce so much discussion, and even countering views, I am amazed that :-
a) There aren't more accidents and tragedies at sea.
b) Anyone in a small craft goes anywhere near TSS zones.
c) That I got through the North Channel one in fog (with AIS)

 

[paulburn]

Yes agree! There are clearly strongly held but differing opinions on how to interpret Colregs on crossing TSS. Presumably this is due to woolly wording (section 10j I think is the main culprit!)

 

[[70521]]

Gawd, you lot worry me, you really do.

In practice it is very difficult for a 40' sailing vessel to impede a large vessel using a TSS.

Impede means making them make a significant alteration to speed or course.

Those big white flappy things announce your presence as a WAFI to the OOW on the bridge from a long way back. He or she will take early action to avoid you spoiling their day before you've probably realised they are a threat.

In order to help them all you have to do is sail a straight line at a steady speed.

You emphatically do not need to dart about, speeding up or slowing down, looking for a "gap" because by the time you get to the gap it will be filled by the next ship. They will then run you down on principle just for being an 4rse even if it means they have a lot of paperwork to fill in.

Just keep it simple ehh?

Well said. It really is not a major problem, if in doubt talk to the big ship on the radio.

I find kite surfers more of a problem are they a vessel or an aircraft? What happens when somebody gets impaled on a bowsprit, or whiplashed on my radio antenna? That will be an interesting insurance claim.

 

[pyrojames]

Gawd, you lot worry me, you really do.
.....
Those big white flappy things announce your presence as a WAFI to the OOW on the bridge from a long way back. He or she will take early action to avoid you spoiling their day before you've probably realised they are a threat.

In order to help them all you have to do is sail a straight line at a steady speed.

You emphatically do not need to dart about, speeding up or slowing down, looking for a "gap" because by the time you get to the gap it will be filled by the next ship. They will then run you down on principle just for being an 4rse even if it means they have a lot of paperwork to fill in.

Just keep it simple ehh?

_______________________

+1

It's has always worked for me. Make your decision very early and stick to it.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Hopefully all of them would pass.
Main rule of thumb, steel v plastic, steel always wins.

With respect; stupid post of no help at all. Unless stating the obvious that plastic boats are likely to break up more easily then steel boats is helpful? Steel or plastic; apply the rules and thereby AVOID collisions.

Gawd, you lot worry me, you really do.

In practice it is very difficult for a 40' sailing vessel to impede a large vessel using a TSS.

Impede means making them make a significant alteration to speed or course.

Those big white flappy things announce your presence as a WAFI to the OOW on the bridge from a long way back. He or she will take early action to avoid you spoiling their day before you've probably realised they are a threat.

In order to help them all you have to do is sail a straight line at a steady speed.

You emphatically do not need to dart about, speeding up or slowing down, looking for a "gap" because by the time you get to the gap it will be filled by the next ship. They will then run you down on principle just for being an 4rse even if it means they have a lot of paperwork to fill in.

Just keep it simple ehh?

_______________________

A lot of truth in this post.

 

[Tomahawk]

Slight drift here but.....

Is it just me or does all the steelwork arrive at the TSS just where and when I am about to cross it?

The number of times I have arrived at the edge of the TSS just as half a dozen ships are bearing down on the part of the TSS where i am crossing ... only to see nothing at all anywhere after I am across is almost uncanny. Once crossing the Black Deep there was one solitary ship and me.. ... and yes were on a collision course until I slowed down..

 

[Uricanejack]

With respect; stupid post of no help at all. Unless stating the obvious that plastic boats are likely to break up more easily then steel boats is helpful? Steel or plastic; apply the rules and thereby AVOID collisions.




A lot of truth in this post.

Funny I thought the opposite.

If in your 40 ft boat you are on a steady bearing with a vessel following a traffic lane you are impeding.

Although I do agree with make a clear decision and don't dart about. Is good advice.

 

[jimbaerselman]

One thing not mentioned so far is visibility.

If a powered vessel is not aware your boat is travelling under sail (poor vis, no communication) the rule that powered vessels give way to sail boats approaching from port will not work.

For sail boats, this means that when crossing the first lane with traffic from port, oncoming traffic will always expect to give way, however you are propelled.

However, meeting the next lane with traffic coming from starboard, they will expect you to give way - unless they detect you are under sail. On radar watch, poor vis or laziness, they won't give way . . .

Read this description of the situation .

My conclusion, after many years crossing TSS (and having to make several last minute hard turns to port to avoid a 'stand-on' starboard vessel) is to always signal I'm under engine - roll jib, hoist cone, use motoring light - which makes me the give way vessel. Removes any possibility of mis-understanding.

This threat applies outside TSS as well . . . it's the guys coming from starboard who are the serious threat. Give way, hmmm - Will they? Won't they?

JimB

 

[Uricanejack]

One thing not mentioned so far is visibility.

If a powered vessel is not aware your boat is travelling under sail (poor vis, , the rule that powered vessels give way to sail will not work.

For sail boats, this means that when crossing the first lane with traffic from port, traffic which detects you will always expect to give way, however you are propelled. However, meeting the next lane with traffic coming from starboard, they will expect you to give way - unless they detect you are under sail. On radar watch, poor vis or laziness, they won't give way . . .

Read this description of the situation .

My conclusion, after many years crossing TSS (and having to make several last minute hard turns to port to avoid a 'stand-on' starboard vessel) is to always signal I'm under engine - roll jib, hoist cone, use motoring light - which makes me the give way vessel. Removes any possibility of mis-understanding.

This threat applies outside TSS as well . . . it's the guys coming from starboard who are the serious threat. Give way, hmmm - Will they? Won't they?

JimB

An interesting point which may be misunderstood.

Rules 11 to 18 do not apply in restricted visibility. Specifically to vessels not in sight of one and other.

Rules 8, 9 & 10 do. The apply to all vessels.

So the requirement to not impede still applies in narrow channels and TSS. in restricted visibility.

The situation does change rule 19 applies along with 8, 9 &10. essentially rule 19 all vessels are give way.

In restricted visibility the likelihood of a small vessel crossing a TSS impeding a vessel using the lane increases. The Vessel using the lane will now be reliant on RADAR to detect any alterations in course or speed of the small vessel and at the same time required to take action which is large enough to be readily apparent.

 

[doug748]

Referring specifically to TSS (ie whilst crossing from Salcombe to Channel Islands)

I read all this stuff last night so apologies if I have repeated what others have said...


On passage from Salcombe to St Peter Port you won't go near the separation zone unless you are overtaken by exceptional events. If you want to go to Alderney I should go to SPP first for your initial crossing.

You will meet a surprising amount of West going shipping earlier than you might expect as they squirt out of the TSS and head for Lands End. There will be some ships in this area (the first half of the trip) on all sorts of unexpected headings.

It's no good "waiting for a gap" because of your slow speed the differential between the fastest and slowest ships, and their lateral separation at sea. If you spot a gap from your perspective it will have closed up or moved several miles down channel by the time you reach the spot.

Few ships in the Channel travel at over 15kts, very few over 20. A lot will be doing about 12. So it is all a lot less fraught then can be imagined. Often you can cross that passage without any alarms at all. It's all a bit more concentrated on the Solent - Cherbourg route so that is a blessing plus you are less likely to have a ferry coming up your transom.

If you contrive to go westabout into the Little Russel there is very little to hit, loads of searoom and a big lighthouse to aim for.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Funny I thought the opposite.

If in your 40 ft boat you are on a steady bearing with a vessel following a traffic lane you are impeding.

Although I do agree with make a clear decision and don't dart about. Is good advice.

It was the plastic vs steel (that's used as an excuse for all sorts of shenanigans) that I was suggesting wasn't helpful. Anyway there are mine hunters made of plastic.

You are correct in the other post that I quoted was helpful when he suggested 'don't dart about'.

How did we all manage when we only had a hand bearing compass, a pair of eyes and a paid of binoculars? The answer is that we took things steady, took lots of bearings of ships that might be a threat to us and acted appropriately.

There is an interesting discussion about when you impede something or not - because its open to interpretation. But I'm happy with the reasoning that says, so long as I don't cause the ship to make major alterations in course and speed, then I'm not impeding them. In the TSS if you make your alterations very clear and very early, you might still find that the ship had already seen you and tracked you and thought about whether you were a threat or not.