Crossing North Sea - how dumb?

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Just doing some passage planning for early August. One possibility is sailing from the north of Denmark to the N. England/Firth of Forth area (boat's currently in the Baltic). Who here has done something similar? How does the mid-North Sea compare to the southern North Sea? How grim is it likely to be?

I was thinking of having 3, preferably 4, peeps on board, types with moderate experience but who one can rely on, because I am very keen on sleeping as much as possible /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Previous encounters with the southern North Sea generally gave me the impression that the place is not to be taken lightly.

At the moment it's a tentative idea - alternative is going the Frisian Islands/Den Helder way, but on the other hand if I go that way I'll be on my own for most of the time, and it'll take much longer (but I did it before, so familiar with it).

Any thoughts?
 
It's quite flexible, but the Firth of Forth would be a good one, convenient for me!
 
Not dumb at all, can be very enjoyable, i came from the Baltic
into Travemunde/Lubeck/Hamburg/Cuxhaven/Heliogoland
(filled up with duty free diesel), back to the Freisan Isles very
enjoyable Borkum/Den Helder/Ijmuiden/Lowestoft.
Loved Lubeck and Hamburg, much more fun than sailing
straight across.
 
I see your a masacist!That sounds dreadful.

If you HAVE to do it to get either to of from the Baltic then so be it with care planing walm colthing and food ready,but then to go on to suggest pottering about the frisian islands!!

The northsea is has COLD water and short waves!It also looks and is awful!There are terrors the water its self not content with freezing you with its lumps of spray holds you in its grip and moves you in its own chosen way.But can even blow very hard just to make your voyage longer and even more fearful,though august might not be as bad its still bad im sure?

If you have a good engin then use it to make all the way to the UK you can when needed dont hesitate!

A long time ago i set off from the Maldon to Le Havre i did arrive after a visit to Jersey!But i never found my way back its far to uncomfortable.

Now if you find yourself being forced south dont resist just enjoy Spain Portugal and we could meet in St Tropez or Toulon this walm mediteranian winter?

I will be in Poland and wanted to ask you about I havent got the name hear but the gulf of "Szczecin" to Straslsund??? if ive go it?? Are there ports there?Or is it Russian military still??Will i be fired on?

Are there any ports between there and Koszalln? is there a port there?And what piolts do i need for that coast and Gdansk?

Im going to look when i decide on my plans,but if you intend to "disapear" into the north sea (burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr) then im asking the question i wanted to ask you in a few weeks time?

Be careful the sea thereabouts is dangerouse and then there are the Scots!!!They drink whisky and are very friendly people you may never get away!

Post came in as i was posting!

Hamburgs really great one of the last places to find good shopping and places to eat that arnt "Pizza" or "Hamburger"(sorry) Its great the people arnt really German there interesting.

The Freisian islands!!That depends a really great deal on the weather,on passage you will arrive i prefer to give them a wide berth remember they are a lee shore!

Lowestoft used to be my favorit harbour though i only visited it a very few times four times for me it had a special atmospher?? Just one of those things for another it might be a boreing dump so i leave that up to you to decide

Its amazing some are even going to sail to Norway!! thats more expensive than the Med has rocks and cold water!!
 
Have done Sweden to the hamble & Hamble to Sweden. From what I remember, it can get a bit lumpy as you go around Skagen, and it can be a bit busy with shipping there also.

If you can time it so thet you have reasonable weather forecast, I'd go straight across. I would suggest 3 crew would be ample.

Depending on the wind direction, you could come to Peterhead first then down the coast. Arbroath is another possibility, although you have to time your entry for when the gate is open.

I don't know what is south of the Forth.

Good luck
 
I did almost exactly the same route too - twice to the Baltic, and once back. I agree about Travemunde - I spent the winter there /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Lovely place.

It was more the going straight to Scotland across the middle of the North Sea that I was wondering about - it would save sailing up the East coast of England etc. The southern North Sea can obviously be a nasty place, with the shallows causing horrible wave shapes, and very few ports that you can go into above F5-6 from the N/W (possible exceptions Helgoland and Den Helder). I realise that the middle of the North Sea between Skagerrak and Scotland probably isn't going to be any easier (except no lee shores /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif), but was wondering how typical conditions in the middle compared to the South eg. whether the deeper water made a difference. Obviously in mid-North Sea there are no ports of refuge anyway...

I realise that the question I am asking is partly unanswerable as the experience depends so much on the lottery of weather conditions, but any thoughts gratefully received!
 
If you go from Skagen then it may be a good idea to cross fairly quickly to tthe Norwegian coast as you get a favourable current running SW down the Norwegian side. Of course in a moderately stron SW wind it gets lumpy.
Going the reverse way in August Kristiansand - Skagen is about 18 hours.
Kristiansand and Mandal are good jumping off places for the Scottish coast. If the weather is rough keep well off Lindesnes. The Norwegian Pilot is veryrespectful of it.
 
You seem to have it in one!

Be very aware of the weather have your tide tables and a plan of where you want to go plus alternatives. The forcasts do give you good warning of anything comeing and August can be quite walm!
 
Hi Simon,
Frankly i think the whole of the North Sea is a bit of
a horror, i've been caught out several times, closer inshore
you get those nasty little short pyramid seas, and of course
offshore waves to make you gulp!!
Funny thing about the N.Sea it seems inhospitable, if i have
been to the S. Coast as soon as i turn round N. Foreland
going North the sea seems to change, 'specially the colour
all that churned up sand i spect. Must confess not my
favourite sea. So i treat it with the utmost respect
Cheers enjoy your trip Tony
 
Two years back helped friend deliver new Najad from the yard at Hennan Sweden to Troon during early May. Left Hennan PM and sailed across the Skagarak through the night, quick pit stop at Mandal Norway the next Pm for trip to pub then off into the North sea for a further night and day till landfall at Buckie Moray firth for fuel. Hit Inverness late PM for transit through caledonian canal stopping Colonsay, Islay, Sanda then home to Troon.

A great passage in NE winds at times to F7, the hi-lite finding ourselves in the middle of a naval exercise in the Skagarak sea where a low flying Navy Orion AEW aircraft managed to dissengage the autopiolet with its ECM pod!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I will be in Poland and wanted to ask you about I havent got the name hear but the gulf of "Szczecin" to Straslsund??? if ive go it?? Are there ports there?Or is it Russian military still??Will i be fired on?

Are there any ports between there and Koszalln? is there a port there?And what piolts do i need for that coast and Gdansk?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, it was the thought of the cold water and short waves that are making me wonder how much of a masochist I am.

The bit between Szczeczin and Stralsund is really lovely, I believe. I haven't had time to explore it properly yet, but my boat's in the middle of it, at Greifswald. You can sail from Szczeczin to Stralsund without even going out onto the Baltic by sticking to the network of rivers and the bay behind the island of Rugen. The channel between Szczeczin and the bay involves passing through Peenemunde, famous as the flying bomb test site. Greifswald is lovely palce to visit on the way.

Visiting Szczeczin isn't a problem, it's all EU. You have to report to the nearest border control post on the way in to show your passport. That's about it, I believe.

As for the Polish coast, I haven't sailed along it, but I don't think that there's really anywhere to stop between Szczeczin and Gdansk. Best to double check that on the chart though. I don't know about Koszalin. Pilots - dunno, I'd just use a chart. Things change quickly. Also research on the net. Here 's one Polish list of links to yachting sites for starters, lots of Polish clubs etc included on it.
 
Thanks to you and others for the tips. I must admit that I share Northshore's utmost respect for the place, and had also found that the colour of the world changes when venturing out onto it. OTOH, nothing ventured nothing gained. I'll chew it over a bit.
 
Thanks!

I agree with northshore!

I did silly things in the past and loved Scotland!Even the Scots are alright when your there!And the place is a wonderful sailing area.With care!

August should be OK and the seas are just bigger and colder than the baltic same shape!!!

Ive been trying French rum agian!As im still safely in the walm south!!But the thought of the North sea frightens me.Its not so bad when your there???Or is it perhaps this is one time a female memory of the conditions would be better??
 
Hmmm, how long did it take then? I hadn't managed to get a chart showing scale/distance yet, but had rather assumed it would be more like 3 days/nights? Maybe the Mercator projection has fooled me.
 
Not at all dumb! Do it, if the weather serves.

That's arguably the best month of the year, and the waters will be fairly warm, which makes a difference to crew fatigue.

A sensible consideration of the wx. forecast and outlook - just as the square-rig skippers of old Mariehamn had to - and you should be all right. Nevertheless, much of it will be windward work. Your Contessa 32 should manage that well enough, but you'll need crew sufficiently experienced to keep themselves fully functional on the trip. Not for wannabe passengers.

"Any fool can be uncomfortable at sea in a small boat!"

Write it up....
 
Yes, I'd only take crew who were people I'd had excellent experiences with in the past. Luckily I have 3 or 4 of those. One big issue is that they'd probably have a maximum of a week's holiday, and I don't think it's a good idea to be under pressure to leave on the dot in the not unlikely event that it turns out to be a marginal weather system. In that case I'd probably have to bite the bullet and divert to the southern route at the last moment, I guess.

You're right, it could be fun to write it up, but hopefully not as a shipwreck/disaster story!
 
Other considerations aside, the shipping concentration reduces considerably as you go further north. Southern North Sea is a mass of TSS and banks, north of the Maas entrance there is a very short TSS, then only 'recommended routes'. There is certainly shipping here but the density is far less. Most of what uses these routes is heading towards the Elbe and other rivers in that corner of Germany. There is a TSS along the north German coast. So heading out to Helgoland or further north and across from there makes life a good deal less stressful.

My good friend sailed Shetland to Norway, back to Inverness, three years ago. Shipping was not a problem and they had two quite reasonable crossings, July/August.
 
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