Crossing Cardigan Bay

[38Super]

Thanks Vyv

Abermenai is very nice - it's where we did our anchoring practice when were there.

Do you know anything about the bay on the SW of Bardsey Island?

 

[vyv_cox]

Thanks Vyv

Abermenai is very nice - it's where we did our anchoring practice when were there.

Do you know anything about the bay on the SW of Bardsey Island?

South East?

Anchored there several times but not in recent years. A truly fabulous place and well worth the problems of being there. Many seal lie on the rocks groaning and the island is renowned for its birdlife, especially Manx Shearwater. Make sure you walk on the island - paradise.

When I was last there there was a single mooring buoy in the bay. This belongs to the warden, so don't use it unless he gives permission. Otherwise there is space for two boats in good shelter, more if the weather is calm. Holding is OK but there is some weed, so perseverance may be necessary. As you would expect it is OK in winds SW through to N or so but if there is much S or E in it don't go. Quite something to be there and listening to the tide rushing by to E and W!

If things go bad Aberdaron is slightly better but obviously no better in a southerly. Holding is far better there. Quite strong tides flow around this bay so make sure anchor is holding.

 

[38Super]

Bardsey sounds perfect if the conditions are right. Seems to give the best break in the passage as well, even if it just to wait for the the tides to be right.

If the wind is in the South I probably wont even try, cat's (and me) really hate bashing into a head sea. I'll probably wait for the right conditions in the Straits or at Dinllaen.

Thanks for your help. The plan is starting to come together.

 

[38Super]

If anyone is interested this is my plan so far.

Summer 2010 - Outline Passage plan - 01/08/2010 - 31/08/2010

1 - Rosneath to Largs Marina (shakedown) - 15 miles
2 - Largs to Cambeltown - 42 miles
3 - Cambeltown to Glenarm(Ire) - 35 miles
4 - Glenarm to Strangford Lough - 55 miles (alt Bangor)
5 - Strangford Lough to Ardglass - 13 miles
6 - Ardglass to Port St Mary(IOM) - 37 miles
7 - Port St Mary to Menai Straits - 56 miles
8 - Menai Straits to Bardsey Island - 30 miles (Porth Dinllaen 12 miles)
9 - Bardsey to Fishguard - 45miles
10 - Fishguard to Milford Haven 40 miles (Solva)
11 - Milford Haven to Instow - 52 miles (Lundy)

This is obviously subject to being completely revised but it's nice to have a plan to start with.

If anyone has any suggestions for changes, alternatives or 'must see' places en route, please let me know.

 

[Alcyone]

If anyone is interested this is my plan so far.

Summer 2010 - Outline Passage plan - 01/08/2010 - 31/08/2010

1 - Rosneath to Largs Marina (shakedown) - 15 miles
2 - Largs to Cambeltown - 42 miles
3 - Cambeltown to Glenarm(Ire) - 35 miles
4 - Glenarm to Strangford Lough - 55 miles (alt Bangor)
5 - Strangford Lough to Ardglass - 13 miles
6 - Ardglass to Port St Mary(IOM) - 37 miles
7 - Port St Mary to Menai Straits - 56 miles
8 - Menai Straits to Bardsey Island - 30 miles (Porth Dinllaen 12 miles)
9 - Bardsey to Fishguard - 45miles
10 - Fishguard to Milford Haven 40 miles (Solva)
11 - Milford Haven to Instow - 52 miles (Lundy)

This is obviously subject to being completely revised but it's nice to have a plan to start with.

If anyone has any suggestions for changes, alternatives or 'must see' places en route, please let me know.

We did a few miles last year. When I think back over the sailing we did, and the places we visited, sitting on the cliffs at Lundy, looking Westwards towards the setting sun, watching the yachts below, in late September was the best of them. By some way. Enjoy the trip, wherever you go.

 

[whipper_snapper]

If anyone is interested this is my plan so far.

Summer 2010 - Outline Passage plan - 01/08/2010 - 31/08/2010

1 - Rosneath to Largs Marina (shakedown) - 15 miles
2 - Largs to Cambeltown - 42 miles
3 - Cambeltown to Glenarm(Ire) - 35 miles
4 - Glenarm to Strangford Lough - 55 miles (alt Bangor)
5 - Strangford Lough to Ardglass - 13 miles
6 - Ardglass to Port St Mary(IOM) - 37 miles
7 - Port St Mary to Menai Straits - 56 miles
8 - Menai Straits to Bardsey Island - 30 miles (Porth Dinllaen 12 miles)
9 - Bardsey to Fishguard - 45miles
10 - Fishguard to Milford Haven 40 miles (Solva)
11 - Milford Haven to Instow - 52 miles (Lundy)

This is obviously subject to being completely revised but it's nice to have a plan to start with.

If anyone has any suggestions for changes, alternatives or 'must see' places en route, please let me know.

I have been to all of the places from 5 to 11 and done many of those legs.

My comments would be
1. Looks like a great trip - have fun!
2. Straits to Bardsey, you absolutely must use the tide for most of this or you are going nowhere slowly. Porth Dinllaen can be nice, but is completely untenable and unapproachable when the wind is wrong. The whole of the N side of the Lleyn peninsular is pretty unforgiving and when it is a lee shore it is not nice. I can't remember the tide timings, but consider Caernarfon or Pilot's Cove as pleasant spots to sit and wait for the tide to be exactly right to sweep you along the lleyn and hit Bardsey at slack. It is important to catch up on sleep and bacon sarnies.
3. THe Bardsey anchorage is lovely. I have some photos of us in there, but I am damned if I can find them. But consider missing out Fishguard and going straight to Solva or Milford or one of the nice anchorages N or S of the 'neck' of Skomer. Fishguard is a commercial port, noisy and not very exciting and it gives you a run to Ramsey close in to a rocky shore. Of course if turns nasty, Fishguard is the place to run for and almost always accessible.

All IMHO of course,

Have fun!

 

[DogWatch]

10 - Fishguard to Milford Haven 40 miles (Solva)

This is the leg that always gives us problems, not dangers more annoyance.

There is something about St. Davids head and us, we just don't get on. I have turned back more times than gone around; the headland often gives a completely false weather condition, it can be almost like opening a door as you reach the wind... nice sail... nice sail... nice sail... bloody hell where did that come from..

If you don't have it, the Imray Lundy and Irish Sea pilot is pretty invaluable for finding some interesting anchorages. I would definitely recommend it for the trip.

 

[38Super]

2. Straits to Bardsey, you absolutely must use the tide for most of this or you are going nowhere slowly. Porth Dinllaen can be nice, but is completely untenable and unapproachable when the wind is wrong. The whole of the N side of the Lleyn peninsular is pretty unforgiving and when it is a lee shore it is not nice. I can't remember the tide timings, but consider Caernarfon or Pilot's Cove as pleasant spots to sit and wait for the tide to be exactly right to sweep you along the lleyn and hit Bardsey at slack. It is important to catch up on sleep and bacon sarnies.

If the conditions are right it may be better to go from St Marys to Holyhead and then on to Bardsey. The Straits are nice but I've spent a week there before now. If I have to wait for the weather I can do that in the Straits but if the weather is set fair then I will probably take advantage of it. If I'm still happy I could even head straight for Skomer or Milford from Bardsey. It might be easiest to do that and take an offshore route round Ramsey and Jack sounds.

Lundy & Irish Sea Pilot should be with me in a couple of days so I can start putting some details together.

All this planning is really making me want to get back to the boat - I haven't seen her since last August.

 

[oldharry]

why oh why does everyone go haring across Cardigan Bay as though it is certain death to visit its charming harbours? ok its a lee shore - and many of the harbours dry, and none can be entered after about HW+3 but I sailed there for 10 years and loved it. A little planning, careful study of tide tables, and it makes a magnificent cruising ground with little more than 20 miles at most between harbours. Gwbert actually has the most difficult entrance of all, IMHO.

 

[hlb]

I haven't seen her since last August.

Bit's I'll comment on. I've a much faster boat, so anchorages for us, have maybe been just for an hour or two. Anchored over night at P Dinlinian?? a couple of times. Both times the wind turned round over night. The Fetch aint that great, but enough for the fleet to loose three dinghies.

Strangford. Get it right. We may have been 1/2 hour to soon. But hellish over falls. Think we had 300 HP at the time. Once in, a fatastic place

 

[oldharry]

sorry - struggling to post from a mobile on board; Bear in mind that Bardsey Sound is reckoned by many to be second only to Portland Race in anything above F4, and in lumpy weather the rough water extends well S of the Island. Also no alternative bolt holes in easy reach if it gets nasty. Been through many times without probs, but it has a deserved 'reputation'.

 

[Ubergeekian]

There is something about St. Davids head and us, we just don't get on. I have turned back more times than gone around; the headland often gives a completely false weather condition, it can be almost like opening a door as you reach the wind... nice sail... nice sail... nice sail... bloody hell where did that come from..

During Jumblie's stay at Milford Haven, I was amazed at how many people I met there who were trying to head north and had got stuck. At least three boats had overwintered there en route to North Wales or Scotland, and I met several others who had been there for significantly longer.

I'm guessing it's the need to get tides and winds spot on to get round St David's Head which does it. As I posted at the time, I ended up getting a local chap to deliver her ... and it took him three weeks to get a suitable slot.

Mind you, I liked Milford Haven very much, and now need an excuse to go back without the boat!

 

[38Super]

why oh why does everyone go haring across Cardigan Bay

I did consider the inshore route round Cardigan Bay and I still could but it will depend how much time I spend/waste further North.

Can you recommend any particular places to visit if I went that way?

Fearsome reputations are usually well deserved. I have done the Swellies - flat calm - and Portland Bill - flat calm - if conditions aren't perfect I don't go there. Overfalls are usually well charted and easy enough to go round. I've had more problems in places without such reputations where I have been less cautious. Nothing dramatic but I have found myself ploughing through something horrible wishing I'd gone the other way. The inshore passage at the E end of Swansea Bay for one (can't remember the name). Got it wrong in the sound of Jura last year and ended up doing 2 knots over the ground flat out, dodging whirlpools.

 

[vyv_cox]

Anchored over night at P Dinlinian?? a couple of times. Both times the wind turned round over night. The Fetch aint that great, but enough for the fleet to loose three dinghies.

Yes, Porth Dinllaen is not the place to be if a cold front is passing through and the wind is expected to turn NW. In this case it's best to try to get to Pilot's Cove, or even back over the Bar, before it blows from that direction.

OTOH I have sat out several gales there in reasonable comfort and almost flat water.

 

[EBoat126]

We're moor our E Boat in Gwbert, the enterance can be 'interesting' but usually ok if you wait for high water and keep close to the cliffs. There is a big Cat moored up at the club and they don't seem to have many problems getting in or out. Great protection once your in and nice flat sand to dry out on.

 

[jdc]

Can you recommend any particular places to visit if I went that way?

The Barmouth estuary is incredibly beautiful, and Barmouth an old fashioned and (to me) charming seaside town. I managed it drawing 2m, so you shouldn't have a problem.

St Tudwal's roads is also a very good achorage in W through NE.

 

[oldharry]

I did consider the inshore route round Cardigan Bay and I still could but it will depend how much time I spend/waste further North.

Can you recommend any particular places to visit if I went that way?

Sorry for the delay in replying.

Porth Madog - a picturesque harbour up the tortuous Glaslyn estuary. Once in you never want to come out again! Also has the Festiniog Raliway as an added attraction. Even if you dont ride it, you can sit in the boat and watch Awdry style engines puffing and hooting! Under Harlech Castle nestles Pensarn and Mochras, a fascinating sandy drying lagoon offering total shelter, and miles of sand at LW! Anchorage in a pool just inside the narrow entrance, or turn right to the drying Shell island moorings. Otherwise turn left and find a corner amongst the LPYC moorings, all drying to sand.

Barmouth nestles in the next big estuary under Cader Idris, and offers good shelter once you are in! Aberdovey is spectacular in a wild sort of way, and is the original home of the Outward Bound School. The stuary is straightforward enough, but dont attempt it if there is any serious sea running: - I did and can claim to be the only person who has planed a Westerly Nomad at 25+ knots (the log didnt go any higher). And had my knuckles rapped by the HM, who wanted 'notice of such antics in future' so the IRB could be ready.

Aberystwyth does not have the charm of the northern estuaries, but is an excellent bolthole if the weather turns sour while you are up that way, with the harbour close to the main shopping centre.

Aberaeron is again charming, but you need cast iron shod keels if there is a sea running outside!

Newquay - pretty but exposed, being just a harbour wall. and Gwbert you already know about.

And over the whole northern end of the bay the great Welsh mountains of Plynlimmon, Cader Idris, Rhinog Fach and Fawr, Yr Wyddfa and their foothills loom, giving a totally false perspective of distances off.

Work the tides and the weather, and you will add many happy memories to your trip, but you MUST have up to date pilotage info, and you must not be late getting in - the tide doesnt wait, but you will - up to 6 hours or more before you can get in!

 

[38Super]

Porth Madog - Once in you never want to come out again!

Is that because I will love it so much or because I wont want to face the channel again?

Thanks for the info. For me the Ffestiniog railway is a major attraction which I would really like to do (very sad I know).

I'm starting to think that I don't have enough time to visit all the places I would like to. I'm going have to see what the weather does - if it ever settles down up there - and decide from there.

I've got the pilot book now but it is last updated in 2001 so well out of date now. Phone calls ahead to each harbour will probably be the order of the day.

As you say it is all going to involve some very carefull passage planning but then for me that is half the fun of sailing. I think the tidal stream atlas is going to very well used on this trip.

Thanks for your help.

 

[oldharry]

A bit of both really with Porth Madog! The channel is clearly and well buoyed, (or used to be!), but its a long haul back to the open sea...

However if you are in to steam trains then this bit of coast is an absolute MUST. As well as the Ffestiniog at Porth Madog, there is the Tally-Llyn at Towyn, easily accesible from both Barmouth and Aberdovey (by train to get there on a line that is spectacular in its own right), and the Vale of Rheidol railway at Aberystwyth, immortalised by Rev Awdry. The 'Great Little Trains of Wales', they make a distracting change from sailing along this coast.

 

[hlb]

Course, you could always join the Welsh highland railway at Conarfon, which in a few months will join up with the Festiniog at Port Maddog. You can even go Pullman class.