Croatia, yacht fires, VAT window.

[jimbaerselman]

A couple appraoched me at the London Boat show. The were doing a very rapid search for a yacht to replace theirs, which had been burnt up in a serious fire at Punat, Croaita, where it was stored for the winter. Apparently some 20 boats were lost.

Their rush to select a replacement yacht was prompted by the low VAT window - 5% - which Croatia has instituted in advance of joining the EU on 1 July 2013. From the London show they were rushing off to Dusseldorf to continue their search

The big hurry was to get the new boat delivered to Croatia by the end of March, to ensure all formalities (Croatian registration, VAT payment) could happen in time to save some (probable) 15% of VAT.

Now that's making the best out of a very unpleasant situation. I wished them all the best

 

[RichardS]

More info at

http://www.marina-punat.hr/index.ph...t-požar&catid=51:novosti-marina-punat&lang=en

I looked at Marina Punat as a possible berth in a couple of years.

Richard

 

[BrianH]

A couple appraoched me at the London Boat show. The were doing a very rapid search for a yacht to replace theirs, which had been burnt up in a serious fire at Punat, Croaita, where it was stored for the winter. Apparently some 20 boats were lost.

Their rush to select a replacement yacht was prompted by the low VAT window - 5% - which Croatia has instituted in advance of joining the EU on 1 July 2013. From the London show they were rushing off to Dusseldorf to continue their search
The big hurry was to get the new boat delivered to Croatia by the end of March, to ensure all formalities (Croatian registration, VAT payment) could happen in time to save some (probable) 15% of VAT.
Now that's making the best out of a very unpleasant situation. I wished them all the best

I hesitate to question you, the Oracle, Jim, but isn't the normal Croatian VAT now 25%? Thus they would potentially be saving 20%, not 15%.

I too wish them well, but wonder at their chances to fit in the window - find the boat, get it delivered (normally to Slovenia by road then under its own keel to Puna) then institute the formal registration procedures in a country not known for administrative promptness.

Regarding the fire and the marina report:

The effects of the damage are still being assessed. None of the vessels was connected to the electrical power supply in the time of the fire.

This attitude reflects my Italian marina regulations, that no unattended vessel may be connected to shore power. Marineros, on their routine checks, will disconnect any long-term unattended boat left with power switched on for exactly this fire concern.

 

[jimbaerselman]

I hesitate to question you, the Oracle, Jim, but isn't the normal Croatian VAT now 25%? Thus they would potentially be saving 20%, not 15%.

Not the Oracle, Barnacle, but somemoe who relies on responsible people like you to correct my mistakes! I wrote without checking . . . lazy of me.

Perhaps I should give you editor privileges for my Adriatic pages? You're more current than I am for the area, and you give nice balanced opinions

 

[tudorsailor]

This attitude reflects my Italian marina regulations, that no unattended vessel may be connected to shore power. Marineros, on their routine checks, will disconnect any long-term unattended boat left with power switched on for exactly this fire concern.

My yacht has always been left connected to shore power in the marina in Spain. Now we are in Marina di Ragusa, Sicily and the yacht is left unattended, but still connected to shore power. The marina is aware that we are connected as we have to pay them for electricity. So I am not aware of this Italian rule

TudorSailor

 

[BrianH]

My yacht has always been left connected to shore power in the marina in Spain. Now we are in Marina di Ragusa, Sicily and the yacht is left unattended, but still connected to shore power. The marina is aware that we are connected as we have to pay them for electricity. So I am not aware of this Italian rule
TudorSailor

I did not say it was an Italian rule, just that it is a rule in my Italian marina.

We are not metered, which may have a bearing, but the official grounds are as a fire hazard prevention. That is credible, actually, as there have been two fires on moored boats, both motorboats, over the past two years. One was serious enough to damage neighbouring boats before being towed away to the marina entrance before burning down to the waterline.

 

[BrianH]

Not the Oracle, Barnacle, but somemoe who relies on responsible people like you to correct my mistakes! I wrote without checking . . . lazy of me.
Perhaps I should give you editor privileges for my Adriatic pages? You're more current than I am for the area, and you give nice balanced opinions

Thanks Jim, always happy to assist - if you didn't mind the pedantry

As for the Adriatic pages, I'm not too often further south than latitude 44° these days - that's the top end of the Kornati. Things could change if Croatia relaxes some of its entry costs when joining the EU; let's see.

 

[tgpt21]

VAT window Croatia

A couple appraoched me at the London Boat show. The were doing a very rapid search for a yacht to replace theirs, which had been burnt up in a serious fire at Punat, Croaita, where it was stored for the winter. Apparently some 20 boats were lost.

Their rush to select a replacement yacht was prompted by the low VAT window - 5% - which Croatia has instituted in advance of joining the EU on 1 July 2013. From the London show they were rushing off to Dusseldorf to continue their search

The big hurry was to get the new boat delivered to Croatia by the end of March, to ensure all formalities (Croatian registration, VAT payment) could happen in time to save some (probable) 15% of VAT.

Now that's making the best out of a very unpleasant situation. I wished them all the best

I am afraid your friends may be disappointed. My understanding of the reduced VAT deal is that the vessel must have been in Croatia and under Customs bond before the deal was offered and it cannot be a new boat. New boats attract full VAT. Please have your friends check the details.

 

[prv]

normally to Slovenia by road then under its own keel to Puna

Hopefully not under its own keel

Pete

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I am afraid your friends may be disappointed. My understanding of the reduced VAT deal is that the vessel must have been in Croatia and under Customs bond before the deal was offered and it cannot be a new boat. New boats attract full VAT. Please have your friends check the details.

I seem to remember being told this too, but AFAIK you just have to enter Croatian waters and clear customs as a foreign registered boat, buy your vignette and you can apply for the scheme. I have not been informed by any of the agents I've been corresponding with that the boat can't be new, or that it can't be brought in from Turkey, or anywhere else for that matter. It must physically be in Croatia when the application is made though. I would imagine the Croatians won't turn away the revenue from new boats trying to make use of this scheme - but worth double checking anyway.

Boats older than 8 years are different, the draft law is going before the Croatian Parliament to implement the EU VAT Directive including Article 420. Rules are: boat must be in Croatia from the 30 June 2013 to the 1 July 2013 (during accession) and then must have been in service (in Croatia?) before the 1 July 2005. How exactly this is proved is still a mystery to me.

@Barnac1e - technically correct 20% VAT is saved if the boat was going to pay Croatian VAT anyway, but it wouldn't make much sense to pay VAT in Croatia at 25%, better heading to Italy, Slovenia or Greece where it is lower - so my understanding was that the 15% saving is based on a comparison with what is on offer from other EU states - at least that's how I understood it. I think when it goes back up to 25%, and Croatia is in the EU then there won't be many new boat sales completed in Croatia apart from charter or business sales which are VAT free anyway. It's also going to give the charter companies a bit of a headache disposing of ex-charter boats as they'll have to levy 25% VAT or export the boats - currently lots of them go to EU nationals VAT free - which makes the prices very attractive.

 

[BrianH]

@Barnac1e - technically correct 20% VAT is saved if the boat was going to pay Croatian VAT anyway, but it wouldn't make much sense to pay VAT in Croatia at 25%, better heading to Italy, Slovenia or Greece where it is lower - so my understanding was that the 15% saving is based on a comparison with what is on offer from other EU states - at least that's how I understood it.

That would be my understanding too - however, Jim's post referred to someone who wished to replace a yacht in Punat, Croatia. Less hassle to register there than physically entering another EU country at their VAT rate then sailing for their preferred base in Croatia. Even better at a VAT rate of 5% if they can qualify.

My interest is protecting myself from the controls on the 1st July if I should inadvertently find myself in Croatia with a UK registered yacht and no documentary proof of being deemed VAT exempt. I have a builder's construction certificate (1981) but no definitive proof of it being in Holland, where I bought the boat, in the year of accession (1992). Normally I would never worry but having experienced the mercenary mentality there for so many years I am reluctant to expose myself by being in my usual cruising grounds on that date. Theoretically, only yachts with a permanent mooring in Croatia should be applicable ... but one never knows ...

@prv
Yes, an unfortunate choice of phrase - from "under its own power" - should have been "on its own keel."

 

[macd]

Boats older than 8 years are different, the draft law is going before the Croatian Parliament to implement the EU VAT Directive including Article 420. Rules are: boat must be in Croatia from the 30 June 2013 to the 1 July 2013 (during accession) and then must have been in service (in Croatia?) before the 1 July 2005. How exactly this is proved is still a mystery to me.

This is precisely the same (but with different qualifying dates) as the 'deemed VAT paid by virtue of age' rules for the UK and much of the rest of the EU. Finland and other countries which joined later have the same, with different qualifying dates again. The UK VAT website has a list of documents which would support such an 'age exempt' claim (yard bills, original purchase docs, etc); no specific documents are required, simply the obvious ones giving evidence of whereabouts on the qualifying dates. It is entirely to be expected that Croatia would have such a provision.

 

[jimbaerselman]

I am afraid your friends may be disappointed. My understanding of the reduced VAT deal is that the vessel must have been in Croatia and under Customs bond before the deal was offered and it cannot be a new boat. New boats attract full VAT. Please have your friends check the details.

No, I think they're quite safe. Just after the show they were kind enough to pass me a link to the appropriate page on the Croatia Marine Department's web site. You'll see the link on the homepage of my web site - it gives a detailed description of the procedure needed to qualify for the 5%.

Many local import agents are now all geared to help the process. As you'd expect!