Croatia Fines - Surely this is a joke?

[Windlass100]

See RYA page link :
http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/curr...isingNews&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=jun11

Extract :

Fined for working on a boat in Croatia

A RYA member recounts his dealings with the Croatian police and the resulting 3000 Kuna fine he and his friend incurred for working on his boat.

“Since 2006 I have kept my sailing yacht in Croatia. In April 2011 I went down to Marina Betina with a friend to get the boat ready for the new season. Within two hours of our starting to sand down the old anti-fouling, my friend was approached by two plain-clothes policemen and asked for his papers, passport and work permit.

“We explained that we didn't know a work permit was required as we were friends of over 50 years standing and were helping each other out; there was no question of any payment. We were then informed that it was forbidden to work on a boat in Croatia without a work permit.

“My friend's passport was taken and we were told to report to the police station in Sibenik the following day despite the protests of the marina manager, who I had fetched to clear the situation.

“The marina manager went to the station early and was told that it was an administrative matter that would be settled within 10 minutes. We appeared at the allotted time and were told the same. I was informed, through the official interpreter, that it was tolerated for the owner and his immediate family to work on their boats, but not friends.

“My friend was then questioned and a statement taken. We were then told that he must appear before a judge and that he would be fined. The police refused to say how much the fine could be but insisted that it was a minor matter. We were asked if we wished to inform the British Embassy (yes) and if we wanted a lawyer (no as it seemed to be a minor matter).

“After a further two hours my friend was brought before the judge and ended up paying a 3000 Kunas (ca £400) fine. This had to be paid into a bank by my friend and the police officer before his passport could be returned.

“The following Monday we went with the marina manager to the police station in Vodice to obtain a work permit. At Vodice the lawyer at the station told us she could not issue a work permit as it concerned a friend, who by definition did not need one!!

“I have since written to the Ministers of Tourism and Marine Affairs in Croatia but had no response. I feel I have been very badly treated by the Croatian authorities. I spend around four months sailing in Croatian waters; have used many of the local companies for repairs and maintenance of the boat, paying promptly and fully”.

Had a similar experience? Then email us at boating.abroad@rya.org.uk

 

[snowleopard]

Despite all the pontificating by people who 'know' the law, there will always be local officials who have a wrong interpretation of the law which foreigners are powerless to argue against. Some of those will be simply ignorant, others will be corrupt, as in the case of a boat impounded in Sardinia and all its high-value equipment confiscated by police as 'contraband'.

We were asked if we wished to inform the British Embassy (yes)

A complete waste of time. British officials will never help you fight your case against unjust treatment by locals. The best you can expect is help in transferring the money to pay the bribes/fines.

 

[Zen Zero]

The boatyard in Italy were we keep our boat uses the Italian equivalent of the Health and Safety at Work Act as a reason to forbid owners from doing their own "work" and forcing them to employ the yard's own or recommended personnel. Every yard in the area now has the same rule since the rumor went round that someone had been "done". Someone in this case being a yard, not a boat-owner; but it is only a rumor, no-one knows who it was). The big question is "what constitutes "work"? Being old berthholders, my co-owner and I can get away with quite a lot (eg replacing the rudder tube), whilst newer customers may only be allowed to wash their own topsides. Herein lies the problem with using a law designed for one purpose (protection of employees from exposure to avoidable risk) for a different one (or two in our case - more cash for the yard + less chance of being held responsible if someone hurts themself). Back to the question of what constitutes work ... the definition is clearly different depending on how long you've been a customer! Would removing the cushions for a trip to the washing machine constitute work?

For me, in any language, work is what you get paid for doing. Doing something for which you do not get paid is something else (I tell my boss this often).

In the Croatian case, it does seem absurd. But did the "friend" inadvertently plead guilty thinking it to be a "minor matter" and thereby preclude any rational evaluation of the facts of the case?

 

[Zen Zero]

boat impounded in Sardinia and all its high-value equipment confiscated by police as 'contraband'.

um what boat was that?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

there will always be local officials who have a wrong interpretation of the law which foreigners are powerless to argue against.

“my friend was brought before the judge and ended up paying a 3000 Kunas (ca £400) fine."

If you think the judge got it wrong, how so?

He had a trial. He was found guilty. In their country you obey their laws. QED.

 

[DownWest]

Years ago, in Vilamoura, I looked after our company yacht. I frequently had people bang on the deck and request help. The marina had no objection as they were short staffed and I knew many of them,inc. the manager Sn. Silva. I thought there might be a permanent business to be set up, then reality knocked. As soon as they got up to speed, there would be a lock-out of 3rd parties. That didn't actually happen. But they did have a rule that an owner could get help, but he(the help) could not employ anybody else.
Much more recently, I quoted for a job at Lagos. And was told if I wanted to do it I had to upfront a yearly sum just to quote. No reciept for it either. I declined.
Having been on both sides of the fence: Why should yachties not gain a bit of income from outside work? But also, why should they undercut local businesses who have overheads and pay taxes?
A

 

[snowleopard]

um what boat was that?

That was a magazine article some years ago. I don't remember other details apart from the owner saying one of the junior cops asked, with a smug grin, if he had the manual for the outboard they were about to 'confiscate'.

 

[Captain Sparrowlegs]

Croatia Fines

"ignorance of the law is no excuse"

Just because it is OK to do something in the UK or anywhere else does not mean it is OK everywhere. The boating industry is a huge industry for Croatia and brings in millions of Euro for the country. It also provides many Croatians with a living so it is not surprising the country wants to protect that by making sure visitors do not work illegally.

That said it is harsh to prevent a friend, who was presumably listed on the crew list, from helping the owner/skipper with the cleaning of the boat or any other minor works so it may have been a harsh interpretation of the law.

My own experience of Croatia, living there as I do, is the people and officials are all very friendly and helpful. The marina staff are all professional and having just had the engine serviced they are also very efficient. I would hope this incident is an isolated case.

As it is when Croatia becomes a member of the EU the question of working becomes a moot point as all EU citizens have the right to live and work in any other EU state without restrictions (well maybe a few).