Croatia cruising guide/currency

[BartW]

with our 29ft boat we moored in the canal behind the city,
(against that old fishing boat)
for a half day visit, shopping and restaurant:

for overnight, we went on anker in a very nice bay, at 1nm distance,
on island Ciovo near village Okrug (look Google maps)

Skinny dive, night swim, and all that foc.


we have explored all islands south of Sibenic (not Kornati),
and the only place we had to pay for mooring on anker was in Mljet Polace (natural parc entrance fee) but that is worth every penny,
one of the best spots in the adriatic imho.

 

[Metabarca]

OK, I'm with you. The canal is definitely mono-only territory, and I can understand Okrug being foc.

 

[RichardS]

Interesting! Where in Trogir? Anchored in the roads by the castle?

Right where the anchor is at depth 1.7m.

The water there is murky but not stinky like in the canal, which is too shallow for a sailing boat anyway. It's an ideal spot for dinghying up the canal and tiying up near the bridge that BartW is standing on!

Richard

 

[BartW]

Right where the anchor is at depth 1.7m.

in one occasion, when we anchored the boat in that spot (3y or 4y ago)
we were approached by a harbour master rib, collecting a "anchoring" fee,
but when we told them we didn't stay for the night, they charged nothing.

if I remember well, there was a bad holding ground for the anchor,
and lots of wash from the many boats going in and out,
I remember being afraid leaving the boat alone one afternoon.
(but perhaps It was me being a scaremonger )




exactly the same situation in Hvar, entrance of Hvar city
but there are some really beautifull bay's at 2 or 3 nm

 

[RupertW]

Just catching up with the thread as we're holed up in scradin Marina with 40knot winds due tonight.

Couple of things- the book I recommended was Adriatic anchorages and nothing to do wIth Imray, although I do have that alongside the unhelpful (to me) 777.

Our experiences are that nearly every anchorage is free from Sibenik down to Mljet. We had to tie up to a buoy and pay in Kakan, and also in Mljet but otherwise went to numerous free anchorages near Trogir, on Drrvenik, brac, solta, Vis, the Pakleni and Korcula. We aren't the type to arrive late and leave early so plenty of time to be asked for money.

Let's hope we are as lucky this year as last.

 

[BrianH]

Just catching up with the thread as we're holed up in scradin Marina with 40knot winds due tonight.
[ ...]
Our experiences are that nearly every anchorage is free from Sibenik down to Mljet. We had to tie up to a buoy and pay in Kakan, and also in Mljet but otherwise went to numerous free anchorages near Trogir, on Drrvenik, brac, solta, Vis, the Pakleni and Korcula. We aren't the type to arrive late and leave early so plenty of time to be asked for money.

The coastline is so extensive that it is well-nigh impossible to buoy every bay and inlet - although my impression is that in the northern areas they are trying their best. It also needs local inhabitants able to collect the fees - an example is the island of Unije south of the Kvarner Gulf, the south-eastern side has three inlets, safe bora refuges where only one is buoyed, the one nearest the village. The other two are good anchorages but too far for someone to come to collect the potential fees.

As this is the last year that Croatia can inflict the expensive sailing permit imposition on visiting EU-registered boats I'm considering keeping out of their waters this year. In fact, I have no incentive to wander far from my home marina in Italy and its shore power that keeps my boat heated in the lashing rain and strong bora that persistently is occurring.

In fact, I cannot quite visualize how they will collect that other swingeing rip-off, the new Sojourn Tax, that doubled my cruising costs from 2010. If the 2013 procedure copies the Slovenian one, a EU-flagged boat just arrives without having to declare entry - just as a local boat can. How then can they ask in the harbourmaster's office "how long are you staying and how long is the boat? That will be X hundred kuna (or euros) please" if one need not report there?

Of course they will add it back to the marina and buoyage fees but as they changed from that to the entry charges because too many were avoiding it I wonder if they haven't got some other plan in mind for next year.

 

[Captain Sparrowlegs]

Aha, seems time to roll out my annual rant ....

"Becoming overpriced" ??? It became overpriced many years ago and for arriving in one's own boat ratcheted up yet again with the introduction of the so-called 'Sejour Tax' in 2010.

"Sejour Tax" is a new incarnation of a previously-named 'Kurtaxe', copied from some other countrys' local tax levied on visitors to resorts, aimed to improve small and otherwise cash-strapped communities' amenities - a far cry from the Croatian rip-off application. Before, it was added to marina fees but noting that many foreign yachts, such as my own, avoided marinas like the plague and therefore the tax, it is now added to all the other extortionate fees and costs impressed when declaring in at the first port of entry, such as the one year sailing permit (despite a maximum length of stay being 90 days).

This new tax is invoked at a rate of per person per night for the period of the "Sejour"; one must now state the maximum intended length of stay. If exceeded it is mandatory to, prior to expiry, report to a port of entry to pay the prolonged tax amount. To be checked by a control vessel with an expired tax can result in a heavy fine.

Despite the declared principle of a per head taxation, I have always been charged on my boat's length to calculate the number of potential persons who may be accommodated, despite being single-handed with a crew list stating so. This forces me into a payment for a fictitious crew of people and has significantly increased my annual cruising costs.

Compared to Montenegro's Vignette and Tourist Tax Croatia is actually not that horrendous and considering it does pay for the very comprehensive and efficient navigation light network along with other maritime things I have no problem paying it. The tourist tax is not charged per person for vessels but on the vessel size and is valid for a year. Maximum single stay without a visa is 90 days in 180 days. The maximum number of persons allowed to stay on the vessel in any one year is calculated as 2.3x the stated maximum berths of the vessel. This was brought in by Croatia to combat the tax evasion of many charter companies who registered vessels outwith Croatia and also to combat illegal carriage of persons. It worked as all charter vessels are now Croatian flagged and have to therefore pay all the necessary taxation.

We try to avoid the ACI marinas where possible as we do feel they do not offer real value for money. They charge an excessive 10 Euro per day for Electricity, sometimes 5 Euro a day for Water and the online booking system will charge you a booking fee for each day you stay. The private marinas rarely charge the electric or water and when you add it all up end up cheaper than ACI, but ACI are in the prime locations so you pays your money and takes your choice.

If you don't like the fees or think it is overpriced then feel free to not sail here Barnacle but don't put others off what is an excellent sailing area with friendly people and good facilities.

The official currency is the Kuna and right now it is about 9.5HrK to the pound. Most marinas will quote in Euro but it will be charged to cards etc as Kuna, which is a little confusing at times. HrK appears to be pegged to the Euro I guess in preparation for Croatia joining the EU next year and subsequently getting stuck in the Euro-mess eventually.

Don't worry too much about the language as most Croats speak English, German and often 2 or 3 other languages also. However it is always good to have a few words:
Hvala - Thank you
Molim - Please
Dobro Jutro - Good morning
Dobar Dan - Good Day
Dobra Vecha - Good Evening
Dovidjanja - Good Bye
Pivo - beer
Vino - wine (Crna - Red, Bjielo - White)
Voda - water (negazirina - still)

 

[BrianH]

If you don't like the fees or think it is overpriced then feel free to not sail here Barnacle but don't put others off what is an excellent sailing area with friendly people and good facilities.

This is an open forum for the expression of personal opinion so please do not tell me what I should write here. Others are not likely to be put off by me, they are more likely to make their own minds up based on a compendium of opinion, some of which is supportive of your own. Many owners consider the exorbitant costs worth paying for the superlative cruising area or are rich enough to discount them.

Other than the increasing number of megayachts we boat owners are not the prime cash cows targeted by the Croatian marketing directors - charterers are, and they will keep coming, whatever.

So yes, I do feel free not to come there. Last year I reached the Ionian without calling in at Croatia and saved myself a lot of fees for the privilege of touching on their shores. This year I have kept to Slovenia and the Italian lagoons - all are areas that do not exude the aura of a mercenary mentality that pervades Croatia.

Just how do you justify that expensive one year sailing permit for visiting yachts (as well as all the light dues, chart costs and the latest rip-off sejour tax) even if they are on a one week visit? It is a relic of that earlier evil system that did little or no international trade that it was so hard-up for foreign currency that it imposed such measures and it has never been revoked. I have been cruising eastern Adriatic waters now for over 30 years so I know very well what desperate efforts were made to rake in any spare cash during those dark days. There is no call for it now.

In 2009 I delivered a friend's yacht from Granada to the Dominican Republic, entering and clearing from 14 different countries, some of them very poor indeed but, like Croatia, possessing land and sea of great beauty and cruising perfection. None of them imposed such a cost for entering their waters - only the normal small fees for administration. At least they have the enlightened view that to encourage visitors is to benefit from what they spend in their countries.

Perhaps I shall again enter Croatia after July 2013 just to see how it is for an EU-registered yacht and what devious means are applied to continue to invoke the sejour tax when entry should be without hindrance or that sailing permit cost, just as it now is in the ex-Yugoslavian neighbour, Slovenia. Perhaps Croatia will not sign the Schengen Agreement, which may constitute grounds to insist on entry formalities for all, including fellow EU members, and the continuing imposition of the sejour tax. We shall see.

 

[tawhiri]

Croatia Vigette

I consider the 100 Euro foe Vigette quite small in comparison to the annual cost of keeping a yacht in Croatia.
Here is food for thought. Several Austrians and a German were taken to court at the begging of this year, and fined a lot of money for not physically removing there yacht at the same time that they returned home after sailing there yacht there last summer. As Croatia is not in the EU (yet), all non-EU flaged vessels must depart Croatian national water after a maximum period of 18 months. But for the last 15 years they have turned a blind eye to that.

 

[RichardS]

Several Austrians and a German were taken to court at the begging of this year, and fined a lot of money for not physically removing there yacht at the same time that they returned home after sailing there yacht there last summer. As Croatia is not in the EU (yet), all non-EU flaged vessels must depart Croatian national water after a maximum period of 18 months. But for the last 15 years they have turned a blind eye to that.

Can you clarify that please?

The boats owned by the Austrians and Germans were presumably EU flagged so why would they fall foul of the law?

Perhaps you meant non-Croatian flagged vessels?

Richard

 

[atheneoflymington]

World cruising and sailing wiki

This thread does seem to have been hijacked a little. To return to the original posting, don't ignore the useful free information on Croatian harbours and anchorages to be found on the World Cruising and Sailing Wiki (http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/World_Cruising_and_Sailing_Wiki). Better still, why not register and post some updates yourself on the places you visit?

 

[BrianH]

This thread does seem to have been hijacked a little.

I see you are new here.

Welcome!

 

[atheneoflymington]

Thanks for the welcome. I never really intended to enter this thread, it's just that we sailed Croatia in 2005 and may do so again in 2013 (assuming all the 'fiscal deterrents to entry' are removed).

So, it was actually the hijacking that got me engaged!

 

[BrianH]

it was actually the hijacking that got me engaged!

It can be a regular occurrence on these forums. Especially when Croatian sailing is the subject and I raise to the bait with my regular rant.

we sailed Croatia in 2005 and may do so again in 2013 (assuming all the 'fiscal deterrents to entry' are removed).

That implies in your own boat as charterers are not directly affected by the "fiscal deterrents", being locally registered and not subject to the visitor's sailing permit cost. There are, of course, plenty of other fees and taxes but probably not so transparent in the total charter cost.

But it is indeed a great area for cruising and I do hope you enjoy your time there.

 

[Whitelighter]

A little update

Thanks for all the comments and advice here.

We enjoyed a very relaxing week in Croatia between the 9th and 16th of June, and its definitly somewhere we intend to go back to. I think the only drawback was we didint have enough time.

We chartered out of Marina Veruda (south of Pula) and we went south as far as Illovik then back via Kres. We found Croatia to offer good value, most expensive overnight was on about £25 for a 40ft boat but that included unlimited water and electricity. We did find two very nice enchorages that were free.

Eating out we all thought was very good value, with most meals costing around £12pp for two courses with beers and cokes. Most expensive was about £80 for the four of us but that did include a huge fish platter (pics below).

All in all we were very impressed and I would reccomend Croatia to anyone who hasnt been. The only thing I will say is dont buy the Imray Adriatic Pilot. We bought it as it has been updated in November 2011. Well that is utter Carp, all but one of the ports had wrong information and one would have caused us to run aground had we tried to follow their instructions. One had a Yacht quay built in 2008 and the other (Kres - a fairly big place) moved the yacht quay in 2009 closing the origanl. Neither was reflacted in the 2011 update. A total waste of £25, buy the 888 (we had agerman copy and that was way more use.

WL.

 

[RichardS]

Thanks for all the comments and advice here.

We enjoyed a very relaxing week in Croatia between the 9th and 16th of June, and its definitly somewhere we intend to go back to. I think the only drawback was we didint have enough time.

We chartered out of Marina Veruda (south of Pula) and we went south as far as Illovik then back via Kres. We found Croatia to offer good value, most expensive overnight was on about £25 for a 40ft boat but that included unlimited water and electricity. We did find two very nice enchorages that were free.

Eating out we all thought was very good value, with most meals costing around £12pp for two courses with beers and cokes. Most expensive was about £80 for the four of us but that did include a huge fish platter (pics below).

All in all we were very impressed and I would reccomend Croatia to anyone who hasnt been. The only thing I will say is dont buy the Imray Adriatic Pilot. We bought it as it has been updated in November 2011. Well that is utter Carp, all but one of the ports had wrong information and one would have caused us to run aground had we tried to follow their instructions. One had a Yacht quay built in 2008 and the other (Kres - a fairly big place) moved the yacht quay in 2009 closing the origanl. Neither was reflacted in the 2011 update. A total waste of £25, buy the 888 (we had agerman copy and that was way more use.

I agree with all of that Whitelighter, and have posted similar things many times, but there are those who seem to find Croatia expensive. We have eaten very expensive meals but only because we chose too. There is plenty of great value if you look around.

Agree about the Imray pilot which we only have for the Venice area. For Croatia, the Cody and Nash pilot is a better companion to 777/888.

Richard