awol
Well-Known Member
When I came through in August after WHYW they were threatening to drain the Crinan basin that afternoon because of the leak from the dummy lock. Seems to have taken a long time to decide to actually do something about it.
Crinan Canal Future?
- Thread starter Whaup367
- Start date
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Just out of interest what is the issue with the Crinian Canal? It seems to be both heavily used and always struggling to keep going.
Canals near me in the South seem to operate on a shoe string with no problems at all. The Caledonian Canal seems to operate without too much drama.
Is the Crinian just cursed with a lot of high maintainance bridges and locks?
Canals near me in the South seem to operate on a shoe string with no problems at all. The Caledonian Canal seems to operate without too much drama.
Is the Crinian just cursed with a lot of high maintainance bridges and locks?
ylop
Well-Known Member
the Caledonian has its own share of issues.
i suspect all 220 year old canals that get regular use suffer significant maintenance headaches. Crinan really has no function other than as a through route so closing any part of it means the whole route is closed. It will be much more publicised than a small canal closing for a day. Many narrow boat canals close a section for repairs but the rest of the network is still usable and so you can deviate around it, or the traffic is wandering aimlessly so if fine with reaching a dead end. Narrowboat canals do have opening bridges but generally the lack of masts will mean bridges like those at Cairnbaan and Ardrishaig will be much less common.
Add on top the complexities of getting parts and engineering staff from somewhere populated to the middle of nowhere and a small oops becomes a three day closure.
Of course it then has all the issues of being a public body with public finances (or lack thereof), and an approach to staffing the locks which is rather different to the E&W canals. But most of its traffic is transient so relatively inexperienced in canals, and made from fibreglass - I recall a sticky gate on an English canal where the keeper told me to give it a nudge with the steel bow of the hire boat to get it properly closed. I suspect your average crinan visitor is also a little more hurried than your typical narrowboater.
The problems are furthered by it being a scheduled ancient monument so that any works need approval from another public department, and no doubt any that affect the roads need approval from potentially two more (the council or transport Scotland depending on the road).
Crinan has also experienced a number of water shortages - partly because the locks leak like a sieve (hence the maintenance) and partly because climate change has made the water supply a bit more erratic.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
It doesn’t have that many locks and bridges. It is quite large compared to typical canals. Usage is very low, compared to the past, even then it failed to make money as it was too late and ship technology meant that the MOK rout was not so problematic.
It only has a future as a tourist attraction. Hopefully when all the works are complete it will remain open for a long time without significant closure.
My personal opinion is that it is not viable and will close for good within a decade at most unless they change the operating model. Currently it is a transit service, it needs to be a destination in addition to a transit service, with additional, potential revenue streams.
It only has a future as a tourist attraction. Hopefully when all the works are complete it will remain open for a long time without significant closure.
My personal opinion is that it is not viable and will close for good within a decade at most unless they change the operating model. Currently it is a transit service, it needs to be a destination in addition to a transit service, with additional, potential revenue streams.
ylop
Well-Known Member
That is very much Scottish Canals' vision - they see themselves as "Place makers" rather that transport providers. Of course, with Crinan and Caledonian canals much of that destination is because there is boat traffic to see. I'm quite comfortable with that as a sensible use of government funds - subsidising yachties is never going to be an easy proposition for the tax payer, but providing a tourist attraction that brings revenue to the area is an easier sell. That said, its not clear how the canal can easily liberate cash from those tourists (other than through general taxation etc) to support the costs of the very thing they've come to see.
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
I think it a most useful canal as a MOK avoiding route and used it as such the previous year. We saw a largish yacht needing assistance after rounding MOK as the bad seas had stirred up all the muck in their fuel so engines not available when needed. We got the bus from Campbell Town to MOK both to visit Columbas Chapel and see the seas, and the former was small but the latter large and fierce.
I have to say that the staff insistence on working the locks seems strange after my narrow canal experiences. I guess they think yachtees not capable of coping with rising and falling water and the need for long warps, andmaybe they are right.
I think of it as a fine destination in itself and Navigator want to spend more time there one day
I have to say that the staff insistence on working the locks seems strange after my narrow canal experiences. I guess they think yachtees not capable of coping with rising and falling water and the need for long warps, andmaybe they are right.
I think of it as a fine destination in itself and Navigator want to spend more time there one day
Whaup367
Well-Known Member
I think narrow canal locks are mostly a lot smaller and the boats more robust (the yard guys in Dewsbury used to say "canal boating is a contact sport"), the Crinan locks have been in poor condition and their proximity means they were better operated as a staircase than individually, so with those issues and a generally inexperienced, or at least out of practice, user community;I can see that having staff around is probably a good idea. Let's face it, there's quite a lot that can go wrong.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
The Crinan Canal is still mostly a DIY affair. There are no restrictions on crewed boats operating manual locks on transit. You are not obliged to use a pilot. There are clear instructions available on how to operate the locks.
steveeasy
Well-Known Member
I think it’s a hidden gem. The gateway to the west coast. Needs to be put on the tourist trail and utilise it’s beauty to the full. Needs some kind of boat hire facility. Cycle route add and hire centre. Some kind of berthing and a visitor centre with some parking. People would find it amazing which it is. Plenty of scope with the right heads involved. Oh that little white building to let would make a much needed ice cream parlour.
It’s just stunning!!
Steveeasy
It’s just stunning!!
Steveeasy
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
I'd have thought 9 miles with 15 locks is pretty much a non-starter for hiring boats. Hire of Kayaks and paddleboards maybe, but nobody's going to travel there to hire a paddlebaord for a couple of hours. It's something they'd do incidental to another reason for the trip.
Now, taking a Paddleboard or Kayak and doing the whole length of the Canal with a car shuttle and BandB at one end sounds fantastic and doesn't require open locks.
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ylop
Well-Known Member
they don't, in fact they strongly encourage 3 crew on board (or a pilot) so that you can operate most of hte locks yourself. THEY operate the sea locks and the bridges (and the automated locks that lead into the basins at each end). Whilst I've used locks in England where canal boaters just had a key to operate the bridge and stop traffic I think its probably no great hardship to have them do it. This also means they can make boats wait at peak periods, when traffic queues are long or when emergency vehicles are coming etc.
there are peculiarities - like the staff going home at 5pm, and that if you arrive at cairnbaan heading west at 4.15pm they won't let you through because they want all the locks on the next flight correctly set for the morning / managing water levels, and their internal communication about pairing up which boats to conserve water could be better but actually working the locks is not the problem.
There is a fine balance there - a lot of its beauty is in the tranquility!
I don't think that's a particularly great idea. Getting shouted at by some yachty worried about his fibreglass is not likely to be welcoming.
The tow path is already a NCN route. Its difficult to make it anything other than a their and back route because the whole reason for the canal being there was the geography provided one relatively flat section to go through. You certainly used to be able to hire bikes in Lochgilphead.
There's parking at both ends and in the middle. I'm not sure what you'd put in a visitor centre thats not already there.
Possibly more scope for "trip boat" but that doesn't (a) lend itself to their water preservation headache (b) work too well with the current end to end transit time! I remember going at primary school age and helping open the gates - thats an experience many would pay to do!
The one in at the wee old light house at crinan? Agreed - but its only warm enough in crinan for ice cream about 3 months of the year. I think the Cafe sells icecream so stealing from Peter to pay Paul.
Yeah and its a bit busy, and with various hazards for beginners on those. Ironically they make no money from people who are experienced enough to have their own kit because, like bikes and pedestrians its free. I believe the canal people will even lend you a trolley for transitting (portaging) the locks.
And actually there are cleaner and safer bits of water for falling-in nearby which would be better. Of courses as a "destination" they can still bring people to the area for them to do those things nearby as part of the overall offering - not everyone needs centreparks spoon feeding.
But, although it should be a great venue for a tourist business the Cairnbaan hotel suddenly stopped trading late last year. [I was in it in the summer and can't say I am surprised as it lacked any kind of ambiance despite being in peak season].
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
We arrived two up, and there seemed no suggestion or enquiry if we could manage without them. Others seem to have had the same experience. I dare say two up we might be slower than three up if no other boat crews around to assist at lock, but it would not matter
steveeasy
Well-Known Member
Crazy ideas!!. However if more revenue is needed as is with most things one has to come up with additional income streams. It’s beauty is it’s tranquility I agree but it’s getting the balance right.
It makes complete sense to stop at 5pm. And have a short season.
Id also agree about boats needing 2-3 on board. Sailboats behave so differently compared to a longboat and it would be nr on impossible single handed and clearly the canal can not have staff on hand to help especially in early April when it’s quite.
I wonder if anyone has details of numbers of boats that transit the canal each year? Be very interesting to see the income generated from this and the running costs.
Steveeasy
steveeasy
Well-Known Member
We know it’s there all the American tourists down the road don’t. A good Hotel with a good chief and the wonder and charm of the place with the right marketing could turn that aspect round. It’s the in thing now for good restaurants to be off the beaten track and it works.
Sneaky Pete
Well-Known Member
Cairnbaan hotel now closed. There is a visitor type centre at Ardrishaig called the "egg shed" always quiet. There is talk of creating Aires for campervan in the carparks after Cairnbaan towards Crinan. Last year they were allowing single handed yacht owners through as the staff were assisting them all the way, free, much to the annoyance of boaters who had paid for pilots to assist. There doesn't appear to be much imagination from management as to how to generate income on and around the canal with many trying to get from East to west and Visa Versa as quickly as possible. Some kind of flexibility within the system would be good but there is this no boat movement after 5.00pm which can generally slow matters down.
ylop
Well-Known Member
It’s a public authority. If that data is not already published you can freedom of information request if. I’m pretty sure it will be loss making even before you consider the capital investment in repairs.
ylop
Well-Known Member
If we rely on American tourism we are stuffed! where are the Americans that are missing it? It seems unlikely to me that they they are nearby but unaware.
steveeasy
Well-Known Member
Last year took a road trip from Crinan down to Cambletown I think may have been closer. Anyway the town was full of tourists and the place clearly had a good income from visitors. The Castle was busy. These visitors had to cross the beaten track. I was surprised how lovelly it was.
Anyway Crinan has the potential to attract some if not all of them. If it is worth it is another thing. Most businesses diversify and that diversification ends up being the primary income. Take garden centres they sell more food now than plants. People don’t go to a restaurant during the week they go to the garden centre.
If the Hotel is the one I think it is. It had a real charm too. Been in several times. But needed more than a few tight fisted yachties in there. The smokies where hard work.
Steveeasy
Anyway Crinan has the potential to attract some if not all of them. If it is worth it is another thing. Most businesses diversify and that diversification ends up being the primary income. Take garden centres they sell more food now than plants. People don’t go to a restaurant during the week they go to the garden centre.
If the Hotel is the one I think it is. It had a real charm too. Been in several times. But needed more than a few tight fisted yachties in there. The smokies where hard work.
Steveeasy
ylop
Well-Known Member
You seem to be describing crinan and the canal in general as though those people never go there. That seems odd to me as it’s not my experience - to get to Cambeltown from Glasgow or Edinburgh you have to drive over the Canal (or Fly, or get the Ferry from Ardrossan when it operates). The Canal and Crinan are already visitor attractions. There’s a handful of other stuff nearby to see too (Beevers, Kilmichael, a trail of small galleries etc).
The Cairnbaan hotel is next to the other “significant” road bridge on the canal, a common stopping point for those taking 2 days to complete the transit. A long low building with the feeling that it has suffered 50 years of under investment. It used to have a very good reputation for food. It is a midge fest though.
Crinan itself will miss out on the bus tour trade by being at the end of a dead end and unsuitable road. I expect the locals prefer that!
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
Tighfistedness is problem common to visitors staying in local accommodation, and even campervan owners. My old local climbing group used to travel to remote parts of Britain but try and buy all their food for weekend or week in the big southern cities to save costs (communal meals). I told them time and time again that this gave nothing back to the natives of the regions they visited. They wouldnt listen but were stuck on the mantra of saving even though the main costs of the outing was fares or fuel for the travel. I would say the same for many yachties who drink onboard and never step beyond the quayside. Passing but not visiting foreign ports.
Rant Over