Crew v's Size of boat.

AIDY

AIDY

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At what point do you need a paid crew for your boat. 70 - 80 foot ?? I assume boating become's not fun when someone else does every thing for you ??

I ask the question as i parked next to a princess 85 in cherbourg a few days ago. with a skipper and two deck hands waiting on a couple. on departure the owner sat up on the bow and just watched. I can't see my self being taxied around like this. No fun at all. :cool:
 
You can still "drive the boat" above 24m, but you need a bigger ticket.

A yachtmaster done on a 10m+ boat will cover up to 24m.
Above 24m, it's a different qualification (I'm sure someone will chip in with the detail).
 
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AIDY said:
At what point do you need a paid crew for your boat. 70 - 80 foot ?? I assume boating become's not fun when someone else does every thing for you ??

I ask the question as i parked next to a princess 85 in cherbourg a few days ago. with a skipper and two deck hands waiting on a couple. on departure the owner sat up on the bow and just watched. I can't see my self being taxied around like this. No fun at all. :cool:
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The 24m at which you need a heavy duty ticket is load line length, not LOA. Most 85 footers are<24m

The "no crew" thing is peculiarly UK. In other countries most would have crew at 70 foot plus. Each to their own of course, but my view is you need one crew person full time on a 60-er and 1.5 - 2 crew on a 75/80er just to keep the thing polished/clean/provisioned/laundried/fueled. I plan to have 1.5 FTE employed crew on the new boat. You could of course fill 4 cabins with guests then take all the linen home to wash it, and scrub that much teak deck to make it straw brown, and polish the stainless steel every fortnight yourself, but you'd be mad, imho. It's much nicer to turn up to the boat with all that done, lights on, canapes/dinner made, beds turned back, flowers in all the vases, etc.

You don't need however need a driver/captain and I wouldn't have one!
 
You're paying for the skipper's experience in handling any eventualities that may occur, whether in port or out at sea.
Unless the owner has the confidence and competence to provide safe passage for his family and guests in these large vessels with often complicated systems, the skipper is a logical choice.
The larger boat will have the capabilities to travel far and wide, when crew fatigue will be an issue, maybe the horror of collison, a night time man-over-board or a combination of all three.
Without formal training the owner is not going to cope with these unforseen issues.
The crew/guests/family will be looking for leadership and the ability to control the situation.

There may be insurance issues for coded boats which require a qualified skipper.
 
jfm said:
The 24m at which you need a heavy duty ticket is load line length, not LOA. Most 85 footers are<24m

QUOTE]

Thanks jfm - that answers one question that had been going around in my head ever since you announced the impending arrivial of the new boat.

Length overall (inc. gunwale): 79ft 11in (24.37m) :)
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AIDY said:
At what point do you need a paid crew for your boat. 70 - 80 foot ?? I assume boating become's not fun when someone else does every thing for you ??

I ask the question as i parked next to a princess 85 in cherbourg a few days ago. with a skipper and two deck hands waiting on a couple. on departure the owner sat up on the bow and just watched. I can't see my self being taxied around like this. No fun at all. :cool:
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Do you know that he was the owner? Could have been that the couple had chartered the boat with skipper and crew. Not uncommon.

There is an old adage - if it fly's, floats or ****s, rent it! :D
 
Solitaire said:
Do you know that he was the owner? Could have been that the couple had chartered the boat with skipper and crew. Not uncommon.

There is an old adage - if it fly's, floats or ****s, rent it! :D
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yes owner was on board... I asked the crew and that was all the info they were prepared to give :D
 
AndieMac said:
You're paying for the skipper's experience in handling any eventualities that may occur, whether in port or out at sea.
Unless the owner has the confidence and competence to provide safe passage for his family and guests in these large vessels with often complicated systems, the skipper is a logical choice.
The larger boat will have the capabilities to travel far and wide, when crew fatigue will be an issue, maybe the horror of collison, a night time man-over-board or a combination of all three.
Without formal training the owner is not going to cope with these unforseen issues.
The crew/guests/family will be looking for leadership and the ability to control the situation.

There may be insurance issues for coded boats which require a qualified skipper.
Click to expand...


Agreed though it's not the case that employed skippers are the only custodians of experience, leadership and qualifications. There's nothing to stop an owner collecting the same skills and tickets if he/she chooses. (Indeed, most folks with the wherewithal to buy a 25m boat have done a bit of leadership!). Certainly Commercial Yachtmaster is not too difficult a ticket to get for an experienced and competent owner, for example
 
Pinnacle said:
Thanks jfm - that answers one question that had been going around in my head ever since you announced the impending arrivial of the new boat.

Length overall (inc. gunwale): 79ft 11in (24.37m) :)
Click to expand...

Load line length is a tricky formula. I think it works as follows, but I have never bothered to read the actual rules first hand so if anyone knows better feel free to correct me. It's the average of WL length and LOA, but in computing LOA you ignore certain items, which I think are items that can be removed without affecting integrity of the vessel. Projecting pulpits and anchors therefore don't count, and up/down platforms. On boats that are still just over 24m, many builders make the bow a separate grp moulding, like a removeable nosecone. I mean, the hull actually is moulded with a bow like a mirror dinghy, then the last 2 foot of pointy GRP bow is a separate mould siliconed on. Ferretti 830 does this for example. Builders make the joint so hidden it's hard to know which boats deploy this trick - you have to get close up to see.

The Sq78 which is 79'11"= 24.37m LOA is therefore comfortably inside the 24m LLL limit
 
jfm said:
Load line length is a tricky formula. I think it works as follows, but I have never bothered to read the actual rules first hand so if anyone knows better feel free to correct me. It's the average of WL length and LOA, but in computing LOA you ignore certain items, which I think are items that can be removed without affecting integrity of the vessel. Projecting pulpits and anchors therefore don't count, and up/down platforms. On boats that are still just over 24m, many builders make the bow a separate grp moulding, like a removeable nosecone. I mean, the hull actually is moulded with a bow like a mirror dinghy, then the last 2 foot of pointy GRP bow is a separate mould siliconed on. Ferretti 830 does this for example. Builders make the joint so hidden it's hard to know which boats deploy this trick - you have to get close up to see.

The Sq78 which is 79'11"= 24.37m LOA is therefore comfortably inside the 24m LLL limit
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Well, well, well.....you learn something every day! :)
 
Have seen boats with seperately moulded bows before and could never work out why, now i know.
You can usually see them better under the spotlights in Excell
 
jfm said:
Agreed though it's not the case that employed skippers are the only custodians of experience, leadership and qualifications. There's nothing to stop an owner collecting the same skills and tickets if he/she chooses. (Indeed, most folks with the wherewithal to buy a 25m boat have done a bit of leadership!). Certainly Commercial Yachtmaster is not too difficult a ticket to get for an experienced and competent owner, for example
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Leadership was probably the wrong word to use in my post, as you say these guys do this all day, and they are not hard to get tickets.
The equivilant (boat size) ticket for a commercial yachtmaster (Oz - Master 5) involves 365 fully logged days of sea service on a recognised commercial vessel of suitable size, 6 weeks of full time college and numerous supplementry courses, which of course makes it an unattractive proposition for our time poor, wealthy high flyers.

Most/some? I image, just aren't into boating enough to spend that sort of time persuing a ticket to operate, maybe one of quite a number of toys or interests.
It would be very unusual in this country for an owner of a 80' + luxury 'Gin Palace' to have a commercial ticket to operate. The skipper is viewed as part of the poshness. :)
 
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aquapower said:
Have seen boats with seperately moulded bows before and could never work out why, now i know.
You can usually see them better under the spotlights in Excell
Click to expand...

There is one in our club. Not an uberyot though, an ex hire craft where the prupose was so that bows crunched by inept hirers were easily and rapidly replaced and damaged bows repaired at leisure.

Begs the question whether or not there is any element of that with the bigger stuff:-)
 
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