Creosote question (non boaty)

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peter2407

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I have 100+ "railway sleeper" type lumps of wood to do a like for like drive replacement on my wooden bridge drive. The new wood has been pressure treated but as a belt n braces exercise I intend to creosote them on all except the surface that is exposed. My question is - should I let them dry before creosoting them or doesn't it matter?
 
peter2407 said:
I have 100+ "railway sleeper" type lumps of wood to do a like for like drive replacement on my wooden bridge drive. The new wood has been pressure treated but as a belt n braces exercise I intend to creosote them on all except the surface that is exposed. My question is - should I let them dry before creosoting them or doesn't it matter?
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Yes let them dry thoroughly.

But is there really any point in creosoting them if they have been pressure treated to the appropriate standard.

To be effective creosoting should done by a pressure treatment.

Are you able to get real creosote anyway ?
 
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I had an elderly Uncle with a farm in Glocs---his "secret" recipe for creosote was one third creosote, one third old engine oil and one third paraffin. When it rained the water ran off the treated wood like it had been waxed.

I suspect that Health & Safety would have few words to say about his recipe but it certainly seemed to work.
 
peter2407 said:
I have 100+ "railway sleeper" type lumps of wood to do a like for like drive replacement on my wooden bridge drive. The new wood has been pressure treated but as a belt n braces exercise I intend to creosote them on all except the surface that is exposed. My question is - should I let them dry before creosoting them or doesn't it matter?
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Creosted surfaces can get very slippery when wet, so consider if this is important beforehand.
 
lydiamight said:
I had an elderly Uncle with a farm in Glocs---his "secret" recipe for creosote was one third creosote, one third old engine oil and one third paraffin. When it rained the water ran off the treated wood like it had been waxed.
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So diluting the preservatives in the creosote to a third of their original concentrations !!
 
peter2407 said:
as a belt n braces exercise I intend to creosote them
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Do you have a source of creosote, then? Can't buy it any more through "normal" routes, I believe its only legal use is for telephone poles and (genuine) railway sleepers. The latter dispensation being largely irrelevant since they're mostly concrete anyway.

Pete
 
peter2407 said:
I have 100+ "railway sleeper" type lumps of wood to do a like for like drive replacement on my wooden bridge drive. The new wood has been pressure treated but as a belt n braces exercise I intend to creosote them on all except the surface that is exposed. My question is - should I let them dry before creosoting them or doesn't it matter?
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How do you intend Anchoring them down
 
It's this stuff I am using, so probably not what would be considered "proper creosote": http://www.bartoline.co.uk/products_View.aspx?articleid=3&Group=Woodcare Products

The old ones had two large screws (half inch diameter by two inches in length) either side from underneath where the supporting metal framework is that the sleepers sit on. There are then "coping stones" that stop the car going off the bridge, and they had 10 inch coach screws every five sleepers. I think that the underneath screws contributed to the rot problem, as they were positioned where the most downward stress exists - ie where the car wheels drove over them.

I am thinking about abandoning the underneath screws and instead bolting/screwing each sleeper to the coping stones (cant think of a better term). Anyone think I am mad?
 
The description of that product is funny, so it's a "non biocidal" wood preserver? Is that similar to the seemingly non herbicidal weedkillers we have to use these days?
 
I work in NZ and Australia for the largest global supplier of timber preservatives. Our company also operates in the UK.

So I was totally intrigued by the advert which includes:
"As from the 1st February 2009, Creosote Substitute has been withdrawn from sale however Bartoline has introduced an alternative non-biocidal product Creocote Oil Based Timber Treatment."
Now there are only three causes of timber degradation (apart from fire.) 1 Insects, 2 Yeasts moulds and funghis and, 3 mechanical damage which can be from alternate shrinking and swelling as the wood wets and drys or could be Tire wear etc.
You need a biocide to deal to 1 and 2 so if it not a biocide it will only be protecting from 3. This is not silly - we have non biocide wax impregnation products aimed at reducing the the wet /dry swelling shrinking aspect. It would be interesting to ask them how a non biocide protects against biological damage which seems to be what is implied?


I seriously suggest you contact Osmose UK based in Marlowe and ask their advice.
We field calls like this regularly in NZ and do our best to help. I hope our UK people will do likewise. I cant advise you myself as your UK species and preservatives and climate are all different.


Incidentally, the most effective treatment for timber for marine use in the tropics is generally considered to be Copper Chrome Arsenate then over - treated with Creosote.
But to be effective the wood needs to be dryed after CCA treatment and then pressure treated with hot creosote.

Good Luck
 
Some piccies might help in terms of better visualising what you are doing?

Anyhow - wouldn't bother with 'creosoting' - most stuff you can buy is like gnats pi55 and I wouldn't bother screwing from the coping stones. The more fixings into the edge stones the more the flexing of the sleepers will want to lift them/break them.

Also consider the new life expectancy of the replacement timbers. If this is 20+ years but you only plan to be at the house for 10 years don't worry too much and go boating instead. Of course, you may be residing in a stately moated home in which case don't worry at all, apply for a heritage grant and let some other bu55er do it for you.
 
prv said:
Do you have a source of creosote, then? Can't buy it any more through "normal" routes, I believe its only legal use is for telephone poles and (genuine) railway sleepers. The latter dispensation being largely irrelevant since they're mostly concrete anyway.

Pete
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Try going to your local Farmers' Store. The Company I used to work for in Cornwall still has genuine Creosote, in 20 litre (I think) containers. It's about £50 per container, so not cheap. The substitutes are, in my mind, rubbish, and like most 'substitutes, has to be re-applied much more often, just like weed killers and the like. So not really that 'Green'.

And I also dilute Creosote with used engine oil for use on my wooden gates.
 
CreakyDecks said:
The description of that product is funny, so it's a "non biocidal" wood preserver? Is that similar to the seemingly non herbicidal weedkillers we have to use these days?
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Ah well

i dont see any reference in the link to it being a wood preserver !........


merely

"a highly effective oil based wood treatment, which provides excellent surface water repellence and restricts weather damage. The product improves grain definition and exhibits the characteristic odour familiar to traditional Creosote users"


Hopefully all the OP is expecting is that non-exposed surfaces or his "sleepers" will look as though they have been creosoted. Pity nobody will be able to see them and appreciate all the extra effort and expense!
 
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To be fair, what I am actually after is to avoid having to replace these things in 10 years, as that is how long the current ones have been down, which is considerably less than the "they'll be good for my lifetime, mate" promise of the original builder - which may well turn out to be true ....

Yes it's overkill - the first batch arrived today of the new ones, and where an old one could be man handled by one person, many of the new ones need at least two matelot types - might just be sodden, but please leave me my fantasies ...
 
peter2407 said:
To be fair, what I am actually after is to avoid having to replace these things in 10 years, as that is how long the current ones have been down, which is considerably less than the "they'll be good for my lifetime, mate" promise of the original builder - which may well turn out to be true ....

Yes it's overkill - the first batch arrived today of the new ones, and where an old one could be man handled by one person, many of the new ones need at least two matelot types - might just be sodden, but please leave me my fantasies ...
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Fi you dont use rubber gloves the timber might last longer than you :)
 
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