Craning in

I am astonished that the thought of standing on a correctly slung load would be seen as a major problem. Loads of considerable weight are routinely lifted safely with no expectation of a problem. Staff at work sites are often moved to elevated positions using a specifically designed cage.

Is this really much different to riding on a cherry picker ?

The Insurance status is a secondary issue - crane company operators primarily do not want to loose a load and they insure as all businesses do for piece of mind.

I ride on my boat every year in and out of the water and have found this to be normal practice at more than one yard. It is a sensible place to be to get your own boat in position to lift.

I prefer to be involved under the guidance of the yard staff.

If you really thought there was a remote chance of your boat coming out of the slings would you ever have it lifted!!
 
Mel said:
I am astonished that the thought of standing on a correctly slung load would be seen as a major problem. Loads of considerable weight are routinely lifted safely with no expectation of a problem. Staff at work sites are often moved to elevated positions using a specifically designed cage.
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And there's the issue, right there.

If a sling snaps and my boat falls, it's a bummer and I have to call the insurers. Can't do that if I'm dead.
 
I'm glad to see that most are in agreement with me. The lift in question was over adjacent boats (so a reasonable height), organised by the site owner, strops fitted by boat owners (untrained but with vested interest). If you were 'acting under instructions', you should be appropriately trained and inducted. All very well UNTIL something goes wrong and there is a mishap.
 
Mel said:
If I was that adverse to risk then I would certainly never go sailing !
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I'm not adverse to risk, but I am very averse to wholly unnecessary risk.

ghostlymoron said:
I'm glad to see that most are in agreement with me. The lift in question was over adjacent boats (so a reasonable height), organised by the site owner, strops fitted by boat owners (untrained but with vested interest). If you were 'acting under instructions', you should be appropriately trained and inducted. All very well UNTIL something goes wrong and there is a mishap.
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Oh my giddy aunt. If the HSE ever hear of that - and they bloody well should - the site owner is going to be in court and facing serious fines.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Oh my giddy aunt.
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Yeah, just to be clear, the lifting in my yard which I'm perfectly happy with riding, is a couple of feet off the ground and a few more down into the dock. Lifting boats over mastheads with people on board is definitely "interesting".

Pete
 
OK, I would think it was normally unacceptable with a crane, but what about a travel hoist, where the boat is never more than about a foot off the ground? I am always aboard when slipping and launching with the yard travel hoist.
 
I always left launching on a travel hoist to the yard staff. There would have been nothing I could have done to prevent a disaster and may have distracted the yardmen from their duties. I told them where the seacocks were and they checked before releasing from the slings. Interfering amateurs have nothing to contribute, I would opine.
 
On board for slinging,lift out,but not riding the yacht round to the cradle.
On board for lift in and deslinging,checking seacocks,and sailing away in to the sunset.
To me it's a fun ride,and I'm not a total nutter

As someone said above... you wonder how some people manage to enjoy being alive,let alone sailing on the sea, when they are obsessed with insurance, risk assessments etc.
 
jerrytug said:
As someone said above... you wonder how some people manage to enjoy being alive,let alone sailing on the sea, when they are obsessed with insurance, risk assessments etc.
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I know, I know. I'm really boring. I've got lifejackets and safety harnesses and an EPIRB and all sorts of silly nonsense like that, too.
 
Consider this...whilst probably a fairly small chance of something going wrong, if it does it could very easilly be catastrophic. And if there is a reasonably practical way of minimising the risk, why take the risk in the first place? There are very few circumstances (if any at all) imho that necessitate someone to be lifted with the boat. Climbing aboard from another vessel once afloat...perfectly achievable with no real effort.

Sailing can be a dangerous sport. But by using common sense and taking a few precautions.......lifejackets, flares, radio, looking at the weather, keeping boat in good condition etc to name a few) it can be a very safe sport/past time. And that is how I am sure plenty of people see it. You are after all at the hands of mother nature to some degree.

Now apply the same principle to riding on a boat whilst being craned in....could be dangerous but by applying a few basic safety ideas it can be much safer. There is very little need to ride on a boat so why do it in the first place?!

The other one that amazes me is people who try to walk under boats suspended in cranes/hoists (and it amazes me how common this is). People say 'oh I am sure it is safe' but if it falls on you under whatever circumstances (even if really bizzare) you're the one that's dead. Pointless saying ' it shouldn't have happened' at that point!

Life can be about taking risks - we all do this every day with crossing the road, but I so no reason to take unecessary risks no matter how small if there is a sensible alternative.
 
ribdriver said:
There are very few circumstances (if any at all) imho that necessitate someone to be lifted with the boat. Climbing aboard from another vessel once afloat...perfectly achievable with no real effort.
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Not very easy at our yard. The travelift runs out over the water on tracks supported on top of steel piles. So there's nothing to stand on alongside the boat at water level, and it wouldn't be particularly easy to get another boat in there either. There is a pontoon just outside, so when lifting in you can arrange a line to that pontoon and pull the boat out without anybody needing to be on board (though if the tide has started to run then a person on board to fend the boat off the piles as it comes out is a good idea - probably that's why I got lifted in once). On the lift out, you really do need someone on the boat to position and hold it centrally between the piles and clear of the lift's horizontal bars, until the slings lift enough to hold it in place. As I said back in post number 7, you probably could climb out at that point, but the risk of falling into the water or getting crushed between the lift bars and the piles as the boat shifts in the current are far greater than any risks of staying on board.

Pete
 
At my yard, the travel hoist goes up and down a slip into the open sea. There is no pontoon. When slipping, the skipper HAS to guide the boat, from the sea, into the hoist, and it's good to have crew for fending off. Once in the hoist, it's not really practical to get a boat alongside to get the crew off.
When launching, the same conditions apply in reverse. As the boat is never more than about a foot off the ground, where is the danger?
 
NormanS said:
At my yard, the travel hoist goes up and down a slip into the open sea. There is no pontoon. When slipping, the skipper HAS to guide the boat, from the sea, into the hoist, and it's good to have crew for fending off. Once in the hoist, it's not really practical to get a boat alongside to get the crew off.
When launching, the same conditions apply in reverse. As the boat is never more than about a foot off the ground, where is the danger?
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Boat falls a foot, with an almighty bang. With you onboard that is probably going to hurt, if not throw you off. Boat then falls sideways as is almost certainly no longer supported enough to keep her upright. Even in a travel hoist as the weight and balance will be shifted in the remaining sling(s). If a yacht with mast up, rig will probably hit crane/hoist and crumple downwards.

Not saying it is very likely..if the yard/crane operator is any good and legal then they will be checking all the gear on a regular basis. But if it did happen I would not want to be onboard when there are other ways. What are the dangers getting off onto another boat (even over the stern or bow) - fall in, drown etc. Thats what lifejackets are for. What PPE are you going to use if you're on a boat and it drops? Wrap yourself up in bubble wrap?

I am not saying that riding on a boat in a crane is overly dangerous in itself...its probably statistically safer than going sailing, but when it does go wrong....
 
ribdriver said:
Boat falls a foot, with an almighty bang. With you onboard that is probably going to hurt, if not throw you off. Boat then falls sideways as is almost certainly no longer supported enough to keep her upright. Even in a travel hoist as the weight and balance will be shifted in the remaining sling(s). If a yacht with mast up, rig will probably hit crane/hoist and crumple downwards.

Not saying it is very likely..if the yard/crane operator is any good and legal then they will be checking all the gear on a regular basis. But if it did happen I would not want to be onboard when there are other ways. What are the dangers getting off onto another boat (even over the stern or bow) - fall in, drown etc. Thats what lifejackets are for. What PPE are you going to use if you're on a boat and it drops? Wrap yourself up in bubble wrap?

I am not saying that riding on a boat in a crane is overly dangerous in itself...its probably statistically safer than going sailing, but when it does go wrong....
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Life is risky. Think of the risks of being born. In my boating, I'm sure that I am at much more risk driving to the boat, than from any of the risks directly involved in all aspects of boating.
Right now, we're all at great risk because of bungling polititians, and you're worrying about the very unlikely result of dropping one foot.:confused:
 
Quite possibly.....

I didn't say I was worried and I am not because with no real effort I won't put myself in that position.

Lets agree to disagree. Thats the joy of life - everyone's different :)
 
A friend of mine says in his work ( supplies the oil industry) it is a disciplinary offence not to use the handrail on the office stairs.
Its part of a culture to make staff take every safety precaution available, because you don't want the ones who think safety can be done without.

It's not about the probability, it's about the consequences.

This thread is about craning in all its forms, and with the low risk of failure goes the consequence only of the loss of a boat. With a man on board the consequence is much bigger.
The boat may fall one foot, but the man may fall off the deck.
 
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