Cradle or legs?

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melandnick

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Hi Everyone,

Some more advice required

In just over 3 weeks my boat will be delivered to my back garden!
she is 32'6" long and approx 6 ton.
she has a long flat bottomed keel and will stand upright without support ( 'till the wind blows anyway )
She will be sitting on grass.
I was thinking about sitting her on scaffolding boards or similar to stop her sinking in the grass then using 4 x acro props with 2x vertical, each side and fixed to 2x horizontal poles ( scaffolding? ) which can either be run through the portlights or over the coach roof and coamings and strapped underneath to hold them tight effectively giving the boat 4 legs. ( not sure if this makes sense but the picture in my head looks OK )

In 6 months we go off cruising so I don’t want to shell out on a cradle that I will have to try to store while we are away so any advice?

Alternatively, has anyone got a cradle to lend ( for a small fee) for 6 months?

Thanks

Nick
 
If it were my boat, I'd sleep much more soundly if I knew it was safe in a proper cradle. Maybe you could rent one from a boatyard?
 
I you are going to do any work inside I would put it in a cradle for that length of time.

I had mine out of the water for a week only which was supported by an adjustable cradle and also supported by about 8 wood props.

When I was building/fitting out my boat I made a custom cradle which I am not using at the moment and you could use then. but I am a bit for away from you.

As said for piece of mine use a cradle.
 
Might help to know a bit more about the boat, but I wouldn't have thought a long keeler needs a cradle. Just some props to stop her toppling over. If I've understood your scaffold idea rightly, I don't like the sound of it much. It sounds like you're planning vertical legs and a horizontal top, forming a cube. With no diagonal bracing, there's nothing to stop this folding over sideways like a cardboard box with the ends removed. Scaffold structures need to be made of triangles for rigidity.

Legs which you can also use to dry out while cruising sound like a good idea for a long-keeler, but again it depends on the type of boat.

Pete
 
Hi prv

Sorry, the boat is a one off so difficut to describe without pics ( and I am at work at present )
she has a ong keel that is flat at the base, I don't know but probbably 8-10' long and about 1' across so when she is sat on the ground she sits very happily.
it would be almost impossible for her to tip forward, backwards or to twist as a fin keeler can.
so she just needs to be stopped from falling over sideways.
I dont trust a single leg either side ( drying legs ) to be safe through the whoe winter and what I suggested would efectively be 2 sets of legs.
the bottoms of the acro props would be screwed into the scaffold planks and the tops fixed securely with U bolts to the horizontal poles so no chance of anything moving ( though I would probably put in some diagonals anyway )
 
melandnick said:
I dont trust a single leg either side ( drying legs ) to be safe through the whoe winter and what I suggested would efectively be 2 sets of legs.)
Click to expand...

I winter my boat out of the water on her legs, like your boat she has a long straight keel, and for peace of mind I do add a few props although I'm sure she doesn't need it. As you say, she is not going to tip or twist like a short keeled boat might.
 
I have overwintered my boat twice on Yacht Legs. Boat is the shallow fin version, which makes the keel about two metres long. The yard is fairly exposed to N - NW winds and is right on the edge of the Menai Strait. Absolutely no problems, in fact the yard manager complimented me (them) on their effectiveness.

This shows them in action but not in winter time
IMG_1344.jpg
 
melandnick said:
Hi prv

Sorry, the boat is a one off so difficut to describe without pics ( and I am at work at present )
she has a ong keel that is flat at the base, I don't know but probbably 8-10' long and about 1' across so when she is sat on the ground she sits very happily.
it would be almost impossible for her to tip forward, backwards or to twist as a fin keeler can.
so she just needs to be stopped from falling over sideways.
I dont trust a single leg either side ( drying legs ) to be safe through the whoe winter and what I suggested would efectively be 2 sets of legs.
the bottoms of the acro props would be screwed into the scaffold planks and the tops fixed securely with U bolts to the horizontal poles so no chance of anything moving ( though I would probably put in some diagonals anyway )
Click to expand...

What you describe all depends on the vessel remaining absolutely horizontal. Any slippage or settling to one side and the weight will make her unrecoverable. Screwing acrows to a plank is well outside the safety parameters you should set yourself.

You also need at least two stout lateral stabilisers each side to prevent any swinging. And over the winter, even with the keel you describe she is bound to settle a little, so upsetting the lateral stabilisers. Even borrowing a proper cradle may come unstuck if there is any settlement.

What you need are massive blocks either side - old steel water tanks are used in yards for this purpose, wedged. This will accommodate some small movement without collapse.

In your position I would definitely overcook the support - skimping will end in tears - at the very least!

PWG
 
If you can drive decent stakes into the ground (fence posts? concrete re-inforcing rod?) and you can ensure the keel will not settle, you could use lashings from the toerail to stakes in the ground, all round. Perhaps 6 to 10 along each side, at 45 degrees or so to the vertical. And you can then tighten up any that develop any slack.
 
You could use wood...like fence posts as props each side with loads of diagonal bracing
also wood...and nailed/screwed say 1" by 3" ....all on planks on ground to spread the load
 
melandnick said:
vyv_cox, can you describe how the legs are fitted to the boat?
Thanks
Click to expand...

They are standard Yacht Legs ones. The socket is fitted to the boat permanently. It has a hole of about 30 mm diameter presented to the outside, into which the spigot of the leg is inserted. It is retained in the socket by a U-bolt that mates with a machined groove on the spigot.

You can see a diagram of it here

It is a simple and secure system that works very well.
 
Presume you want the boat home to work on it, so stability while you bang around is necessary. Also presume the rig will be down, so windage much reduced, which is good.

The two key points are 1) Triangulation, as mentioned above; and 2)coping with sinking into the ground.
Loads of yards use pit props to shore up yachts every year without failure, so go and have a look at how they do it. You will probably need props of the right length (acrows OK if decent end plates), wedges to tighten the props, light wooden planks to cross brace the pit props (if wood) or decent hauliers straps if not, and the all important something at the base of the prop to stop it from sinking into the ground. Maybe dig a decent hole and stuff a big timber block in under the prop.
Check your insurance policy!
 
vyv_cox said:
They are standard Yacht Legs ones. The socket is fitted to the boat permanently. It has a hole of about 30 mm diameter presented to the outside, into which the spigot of the leg is inserted. It is retained in the socket by a U-bolt that mates with a machined groove on the spigot.

You can see a diagram of it here

It is a simple and secure system that works very well.
Click to expand...

I have just arranged for Jumblie to spent the winter on her Yacht Legs legs in the boatyard next to my mooring. She had a couple of months on them at Milford Haven last spring and was rock solid. The only alternatives I'd contemplate would be a proper cradle or traditional propping. Lashups with scaffolding poles through the windows ... no thanks.
 
I agree. Many of the 'solutions' offered above are either way over the top or total lashups. Yacht Legs are superb and a yacht will be perfectly safe on them in any forseeable conditions. My first winter on them was at a boatyard right on the edge of the Menai Strait at quite an exposed yard. The boat never moved. The next time was in Holland, which was where I completely stripped all my antifouling and applied Gelshield. The legs are brilliant for this because there is nothing in contact with the underwater surface.
 
vyv_cox said:
You can see a diagram of it here

It is a simple and secure system that works very well.
Click to expand...

Hi Vyv,

I see from your picture above that you splurged on the adjustable ones, was that money well spent over the plain types ? </Just curious>

Boo2
 
Hi Guys

As always, I appreciate all the advice but couple of points.
Unfortunately the cost of the legs falls outside of my budget so they are out ( otherwise I would get a cradle )
Not sure what the problem is with the scaffolding + acro idea is though. Maybe I have described it badly but it would be anything but a lash up.
The idea was suggested to me by a friend of mine who owns a busy boatyard and is a boatbuilder by trade and whos opinion I value greatly.
There is no difference that I can see between it and using legs except that instead of bolting through the hull I would effectively bolt through the windows.
It would take the roof being ripped off the boat or the acros collapsing to let the boat fall over, and there would be 2x props on both sides ( stronger than legs, I imagine )
I do, of course, understand that I need to make sure that nothing sinks into the grass so everything will be well padded with either large ply pads or scaffold planks to spread the load on the ground.
I am trying to keep this reasonably cheap as it is only for 6 months and when I return she will take up her usual place in the boatyard over winter.
Am trying to save hard for the trip at the present so spending 1-2K on legs is out, I can hardly afford to put petrol in the Porsche as it is!!!
Any comments?
 
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