Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Iwas towed into Fowey many years ago by one....... will look in the loft in my collection of YW Annuals,
Cracked Seams
- Thread starter Seah0rse
- Start date
Iwas towed into Fowey many years ago by one....... will look in the loft in my collection of YW Annuals,
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
No, Peters Boatyard in Berwick on Tweed which failed sadly shortly after construction of these yachts in fiberglass? Obviously, I'm keen to preserve her as best I can so I really appreciate all the contributions made to this Thread. Thank you one and all!
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
Wonder if it was mine? Thanks, and look forward to hearing of what you find.
Grajan
Well-Known Member
Originally it was a dry red lead powder that was mixed with linseed oil and putty, a foul job reserved for the apprentices! Red being used below the waterline, supposed to stop gribble and have good waterproofing properties and white for topsides mainly for cosmetic reasons. White lead paste was also used as a mastic and pumped into corner post joints and the like to stop water ingress.
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
Interesting post. Thanks. Presumably the red is nice and toxic for the Gribble as well as Humans.
Signed
Apprentice
LittleShip
Well-Known Member
Red lead is no more toxic than white lead putty.
White lead was used above the waterline as Grajan states for cosmetic reasons...... The old style paints would allow the colourant of the red lead to leach through so white was used to prevent this.
Good luck with the project, I did all my seams 7 years ago and they are still perfect, time and care is the only way to tackle this type of job there are no short cuts.
ATB
Tom
White lead was used above the waterline as Grajan states for cosmetic reasons...... The old style paints would allow the colourant of the red lead to leach through so white was used to prevent this.
Good luck with the project, I did all my seams 7 years ago and they are still perfect, time and care is the only way to tackle this type of job there are no short cuts.
ATB
Tom
John the kiwi
Well-Known Member
Silly question time - where is the water coming from?
Years ago i read an apocryphal story of a what would now be called a classic boat with "leaky seams". Seems(sorry, couldn't resist) that much time and effort was spent re-caulking and refinishing hull. Regardless of the efforts, the hull was fine at rest and leaked underway! Finally the true cause of water ingress was found and very simply fixed!(memory says it was a rudder post leaking under strain of movement.)
Moral of the story as presented even then was to first positively identify your problem and second to fix it.
This story has been a touchstone for my factory maintenance engineering career. Often in my work i find that a there is a problem and people assume a particular cause. They then invest time, money and effort in fixing the assumed cause only to find that the original problem is still there!
So where is your leak?
Good luck!
Years ago i read an apocryphal story of a what would now be called a classic boat with "leaky seams". Seems(sorry, couldn't resist) that much time and effort was spent re-caulking and refinishing hull. Regardless of the efforts, the hull was fine at rest and leaked underway! Finally the true cause of water ingress was found and very simply fixed!(memory says it was a rudder post leaking under strain of movement.)
Moral of the story as presented even then was to first positively identify your problem and second to fix it.
This story has been a touchstone for my factory maintenance engineering career. Often in my work i find that a there is a problem and people assume a particular cause. They then invest time, money and effort in fixing the assumed cause only to find that the original problem is still there!
So where is your leak?
Good luck!
andygc
Well-Known Member
Not the same story, but in my case the boat only leaked when under way in bumpy conditions or going fast under power - the faster or the bumpier, the greater the leak. Eventually realised that if a couple of people stood on the foredeck a weep appeared down the stem in the fore-peak. The scarph joint, just on the waterline, had failed and was working when under way. The temporary fix was to glue and bolt a doubler, which worked well enough for a few years, but the stem has since been repaired properly.
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
Is coming from the Sea!!!
It's coming through a six inch crack on a seam on the waterline at the sharp end. I know it's here as I have whacked in some filler which has stemmed the flow. Quite shocking at how much water forced itself through this small opening. But I shall in future use white lead and putty for the other cracks which are unsightly even if they are not letting in water.
LittleShip
Well-Known Member
Putty is not to seal the seams it is to protect the cotton, which seals the seams.
It may help for a short term but thats not it's true function.
Tom
It may help for a short term but thats not it's true function.
Tom
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
Okay but as the hull is splined I understood that it should not be caulked too.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Yes, splines are used either in a different wood so that they expand and contract to seal the seam, or more commonly glued in so that they do not move. They are put in after the boat is planked and planed flat to a perfect finish.
Suspect your crack is a failed glue line. Filling will stop water getting in, but as I suggested earlier it may either be localised failure of the glue line or an underlying symptom of structural weakness. Part of the integrity of the structure relies on the splines staying put in their grooves, so filled gaps inevitably weaken the structure.
Suspect your crack is a failed glue line. Filling will stop water getting in, but as I suggested earlier it may either be localised failure of the glue line or an underlying symptom of structural weakness. Part of the integrity of the structure relies on the splines staying put in their grooves, so filled gaps inevitably weaken the structure.
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
I think you are right. My mizzen mast of box section, which failed recently, had such weak glue integrity that I was able to easily separate the glued sections cleanly so I could contemplate repair. I replaced it to avoid doubt. Don't want to do the same with the Hull though!
rjp
Well-Known Member
My Buchanan is splined but also has a run of cotton inside the spline. Belt and braces perhaps but it seems to work well enough. I've experienced some glue line cracking but she takes up well once back in the water.
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
Okay, I'll give it a go.
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
Progress so far
I belted in some white lead paste, putty and engine grease in the cracked seams about 5 months ago as something of a running repair. Water ingress reduced and I plan to do a more thorough job in April when the boat will be lifted. However, the paste has gone a rather unsightly yellow colour. Will this leach through or has it oxidized because I didn't get round to painting?
Any further advice much apprciated
I belted in some white lead paste, putty and engine grease in the cracked seams about 5 months ago as something of a running repair. Water ingress reduced and I plan to do a more thorough job in April when the boat will be lifted. However, the paste has gone a rather unsightly yellow colour. Will this leach through or has it oxidized because I didn't get round to painting?
Any further advice much apprciated
TobyJug
Active Member
My boat has splined seams and can understand your concern.
Looking closely at the picture I would say that as the white lead paste + some grease filler which was left unpainted has absorbed some surface staining plus the Linseed oil in the paste has oxidised, a wipe over with some thinners will probably lessen this staining and at the same time confirm that this is indeed the case.
But the main reason for my reply is to suggest that the spline has failed and or the plank edge has some softening allowing the failure. The spline needs to be raked out, this will allow the plank edge to be inspected along with the cotton which may be rotten.
Also it is worth checking the hood end seam at the stem as water can track down the rebate and into a plank seam via the cotton thereby saturating the spline area and precipitating a glue line failure or plank edge softening.
The picture does seem to indicate that the seam failure is not confined to just say the upper edge but then shows up along the lower edge.
As long as a failed spline is in place any type of surface filling will not provide a lasting solution.
Replacing a short length of spline is not that difficult and is, I believe the only way to go if you want a happy outcome.
I think as an earlier poster has suggested it important to identify the real cause of the problem and deal with that, rather than treat the symptom.
I wish you well with your endeavour and I hope to have been some help.
Philip
Looking closely at the picture I would say that as the white lead paste + some grease filler which was left unpainted has absorbed some surface staining plus the Linseed oil in the paste has oxidised, a wipe over with some thinners will probably lessen this staining and at the same time confirm that this is indeed the case.
But the main reason for my reply is to suggest that the spline has failed and or the plank edge has some softening allowing the failure. The spline needs to be raked out, this will allow the plank edge to be inspected along with the cotton which may be rotten.
Also it is worth checking the hood end seam at the stem as water can track down the rebate and into a plank seam via the cotton thereby saturating the spline area and precipitating a glue line failure or plank edge softening.
The picture does seem to indicate that the seam failure is not confined to just say the upper edge but then shows up along the lower edge.
As long as a failed spline is in place any type of surface filling will not provide a lasting solution.
Replacing a short length of spline is not that difficult and is, I believe the only way to go if you want a happy outcome.
I think as an earlier poster has suggested it important to identify the real cause of the problem and deal with that, rather than treat the symptom.
I wish you well with your endeavour and I hope to have been some help.
Philip
Paddingtonbear
Well-Known Member
Because it is impossible to paint white over red?
Seah0rse
Well-Known Member
Thank you Phillip
Thanks for your advice Philip. I'll bear it in mind when she is out of the water and close inspection is easier.
Thanks for your advice Philip. I'll bear it in mind when she is out of the water and close inspection is easier.