Covering old GRP dinghy decks with ply, mostly for appearance's sake

Searush said:
...get a bloody boat & sail the damn thing!
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I bet you heard the chilly forecast this evening, Searush. If you'll pardon the phrase, I'm in no great sea-rush...

...but there are seismic rumblings in my wallet department, so, count on it: I'll be ready to sail, sooner than the weather's ready. ;)

Meanwhile, I'll gladly work on turning weary translucent GRP decks into comfortable, fresh-looking timber ones...or giving that impression, I hope.

In that spirit, here's another dumb question: just how dissimilar is new teak veneer, to the wood used in real 'laid teak' decking? I mean, if I proceed as Tranona suggested, with teak veneer cut into manageable strips, and assuming I'm not totally cack-handed at the glueing and faux caulking, will the finished decks be greeted with gasps of admiration, or derisive disbelief that I could have expected it would look good?

Are there any pictures of veneered decks that I could look at, to judge if it's a good plan?

PS, trust me Tranona, I'm in a perpetual dream, so you'll all always be supplied with material to comment on! :D
 
Veneering with teak strips will look fine - can you imagine I would have done on my boats it if it did not! I practiced on an IKEA step stool for use in the kitchen - very smart. The only drawback is that you can't do it to follow the curve of the deck edge to give the "swept" effect so the strips have to be parallel with the centre line. You can cut curves for edges and wider strips for king planks and introduce butt and mitred joints where necessary. Cut the strips 45 or 50mm wide and space 5mm. Glue on with Sika, when cured mask the edges of the strips and caulk with the same stuff. You can get the teak veneers from Robbins -usually about 30cm wide by up to 3m long. Can also be done with epoxy - instructions in the West book, but Sika is easier to work provided you are a neat worker.
 
Tranona said:
Veneering with teak strips will look fine...Can also be done with epoxy - instructions in the West book, but Sika is easier to work provided you are a neat worker.
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Many thanks, Mister T. Your suggestion is my plan, succinctly described. I'll photograph everything, before and after, for the collective's amusement.

I've noticed that a great number of the GRP boats which I like the underlying look of, are of such an age that they've been fairly badly repainted, possibly several times, in earlier bids to rejuvenate...

...just how vital will it be to shift all that old paint? How will I know when I've taken enough off? Am I at risk of going too deep and damaging the GRP?

And is that a job much better done by hand, than with a belt-sander? Not that I'm hopelessly insensitive, actually I've owned & used several sanders in the past.

LadyinBed, thanks for your thought; if April starts with one of those extraordinary leaps in temperature, all my good intentions will be shelved!
 
Lakesailor said:
You need to damage the grp to form a mechanical bond. Sticking something to badly-adhered paint or a gloss finish will not work.
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Aha! Thank you, I believe I knew something of the sort; but how damaged is damaged enough? I'm guessing any roughness in the hard underlying glass is enough for the epoxy or Sika to 'key' on to? (I may have read that, somewhere in this thread, today...apologies if I'm just quoting folk who've tried to help me earlier... :rolleyes:)

In respect of the GRP mouldings which form the spray-breaker and other parts that stand proud of fairly flat decking, I'm thinking a glossy white coat of whatever paint is best, would suffice. I'm not ultimately trying to convince onlookers that the boat is all-wood, rather that she's GRP, trimmed in teak...which I reckon she will be.

Irritatingly, my trunk full of supermarket power-tools is in France, and it'd be far cheaper to replace than retrieve them. Any wise words on what the veneer decking-job will require? Can veneer be cut with a Stanley knife, or is it a jigsaw job?
 
There are people who sail their boats & fix what they have to, when they have to, in order to keep it afloat.

There are people who buy a really smart boat & work all hours to keep her like that.

There are people who buy an old boat & spend all their time fixing it up & dream of sailing, but never actually get her in the water or leave the harbour.

Where do you think you will be, Dan?
 
Not quite any of those options, Searush...my boat'll be old enough to need some work, and my sense of pride in her will necessitate some more. But I sincerely hope she will get in the water. Otherwise I'd make models, or something I could do at home, these long glum winter months.

All my expressions of intent and questions about "how to" relate to my gradual evolution from current day-dreaming to actual adventuring. I have enough past experience to be sure I won't discover after all the preparation, that I don't actually like it out there!

But, I'm no DIY genius. So I may downgrade my more ambitious plans to the bare minimum I can get away with. Especially if we have a warm spring. :rolleyes:

What's the best thing for getting old paint off GRP? (No, that's not a joke...) Best done by sanding, or some sort of solvent?
 
dancrane said:
Not quite any of those options, Searush...my boat'll be old enough to need some work, and my sense of pride in her will necessitate some more. But I sincerely hope she will get in the water. Otherwise I'd make models, or something I could do at home, these long glum winter months.

All my expressions of intent and questions about "how to" relate to my gradual evolution from current day-dreaming to actual adventuring. I have enough past experience to be sure I won't discover after all the preparation, that I don't actually like it out there!

But, I'm no DIY genius. So I may downgrade my more ambitious plans to the bare minimum I can get away with. Especially if we have a warm spring. :rolleyes:

What's the best thing for getting old paint off GRP? (No, that's not a joke...) Best done by sanding, or some sort of solvent?
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Don't ask me, I only sail 'em. Lakey will fix 'em up again.

I'm happy to sail a wreck - as long as it floats (for a while) & it goes where I point it (within the limits imposed by physics). Comfort & convenience ranks above looks every time.
 
dancrane said:
But, I'm no DIY genius. So I may downgrade my more ambitious plans to the bare minimum I can get away with. Especially if we have a warm spring. :rolleyes:
What's the best thing for getting old paint off GRP? (No, that's not a joke...) Best done by sanding, or some sort of solvent?
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:D quote:
"Do not underestimate the effort, expense, mess and misery of paint removal."
"The best tool is your checkbook."
More seriously: depends what paint.
 
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Rossynant said:
:D quote:
"Do not underestimate the effort, expense, mess and misery of paint removal."
"The best tool is your checkbook."
More seriously: depends what paint.
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Hmm. Thanks for that warning, which I take seriously. Obviously, without a particular boat in mind, I don't have particular paint in mind either...

...but the stuff I've seen looks imperfectly applied and scratching/bubbling, so possibly it's not too difficult to shift. I'm hoping the experience of forumites is that a selection of grades of sandpaper, face masks, elbow grease and dry spring weather will be a good answer...

...it's only a dinghy-deck after all, not fifty square meters of hull. Although if paint-stripper doesn't adversely affect GRP, that'd be a speedy alternative.

A side question: lots of dinghies for sale advertise their centreboards and rudders as being glass-sheathed ply; and in many cases the wood is showing (the glass is wearing thin). Is it easy enough, to re-sheath part or all of the foils, sealing them against damage and saturation?

Considering how many rudders and centreboards are battered at the leading edge, isn't there a market for metal leading edges? Has anybody tried it?
 
dancrane said:
Hmm. Obviously, without a particular boat in mind, I don't have particular paint in mind either...
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For some paints, like alkyds, 'paint removers' and good scraper, carbide tip, is convenient way. With antifouling on bottom it's only way to go, as sanding dust is a killer... Cannot say brand names for UK.
On some hard stuff like polyurethane and epoxy paints only more potent kinds will work, typical for this is alkali kind Methylene Chloride. Works but is a killer, highly toxic. Surface must be still sanded for last traces of paint, but importantly - must be degreased, as strippers contain oils usually. For more 'ordinary' old paints this kind of stripper can be also diluted with acetone or such, makes for easier work.

With your idea of covering the surface later - just an electric (orbital is the name?) sander, and rough paper, some from 40-80 and go. Makes interesting landscape off the hull when paint is harder than gelcoat underneath, which is quite common situation :p But naturally starting from less coarse paper is safer - and then go down in grit number untill one that works without killing your arms is found...
For small area that you care about the effect easier just to take coarse paper and do it by hand, with feel.

Recovering of sheated ply is easy, provided there still is something to be worth recovering. When original glass sticks still - sand coarse, pain epoxy on liberally, put some glass cloth carefully to soak, paint epoxy over it again if cloth is thick, then cover with polyethylene sheet applying some pressure to it - so to get smooth surface. If there are places needing filling to level of old glassing (chipped off glass portions) better to fill them with loose mat/epoxy first and then cover all with cloth. Small chips just with epoxy filler; preferably mixed with glass, even with sawdust is better then those "microballoons" and similar which soak with water... )

But best way to have good centerboard is to use proper, seawater resistant ply made of good woods, and with no glassing over. Soaked with oils and painted with oil-based alkyds. Or just bottom paint.
Good quality ply naturally is a bit more expensive, while boatbuilders would spare no effort to cut a pound or two at every corner; than one looks in astonishment at structural bulkheads falling apart from getting wet - inside a boat after all. :o

Metal on leading edge of wood, at least on tip and bottom, was another normal construction practice. Or so I always used to think. This usually of copper or bronze, though stainless works as well.
What market? Market works by selling stuff that you have to throw out in few years so you will buy another... Should it last then market would shrink a lot... :cool:
 
Dan,

I own an old Wayfarer dinghy. Last year it took me about a week to fill and fair all the dents and dings in the hull and deck (a couple of hours per evening). There will be some more filling and fairing this year. My plan is to then paint the deck with a two part paint and probably the hull as well. That will take a bit of time as well. However, in between I have been sailing and will continue this way this year. Once you start your veneering project you are committed to finishing it off. A good paint job can look wonderful: deep gloss or lustre, tough, durable and compatible with a GRP substrate; its probably quicker as well. The main point I am making is that it can be done in stages if that suites your schedule better.

Regards,

BlowingOldBoots
 
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Wow! That's a very comprehensive answer! Many thanks Rossynant.

Shifting old paint certainly sounds like dangerous work. I suppose sanding it is a fully-filtered mask-job?

Would I need the plastic all-covering overalls too?

Thanks again. Good point about the market providing items which expire & need replacing. :rolleyes:

Thanks to you too, Blowing old Boots.
 
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For removing paint from GRP, I'd probably use wet and dry paper.
But you may find a lot of it scrapes off quite easily.
One of my boats had a painted name and logo on the side, I removed most of it with a slightly dull chisel and very careful use of a round blade scalpel.
Finished off with 600 and 1200 w&d, then t-cut, it is all gone and the gel coat in the area is no worse than the rest of the boat.
I think it was applied from new onto shiny grp.
Try different tools and see what works, as paint varies a lot in its adhesion. No point gently polishing it away if it will peel off in chunks.
In my case, sanding the paint of would have ground the pigment into the surrounding white gelcoat.
 
Thanks for these thoughts...which lead me both to worry about the jobs I'm contemplating taking on, and also to believe that regardless of old boats' condition, there are solutions to every problem/fault. :)

Here's a pic I took recently of the underside of a dinghy. Lousy photo, apologies. I'd hoped to capture the keelband as an example of the sort of damage I anticipate having to correct...

View attachment 30008

...but I see now, one of those big spidery impact-dings in the picture, too. They're found on so many old boats, I'm wondering how much of a problem they are...is it indicative of a serious slam? What's the best treatment? Walk away, or get busy?
 
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