Counterfeit and/or sub-standard goods

Piers

Piers

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The last few times we exhibited at METS in Amsterdam, I have been taken aback by the number of counterfeit and potentially sub-standard goods on display from far east suppliers. One in particular was showing Rule bilge pumps. They looked identical in every way, but were counterfeit.

In talking with Rule, they were well aware of the problems but said it was just not possible to stop. 'For every factory you close, another starts up the next day.' In asking about the build quality, the reply was unmentionable.

Other stands were showing stainless 'tackle' at crazy low prices. Again, one wonders if these really can take the strain.

This all leaves a bad taste or a question mark at least. How are we to know who supplies a chandler. And when the article fails, then what?

Hmmm. Discuss?
 
Piers said:
The last few times we exhibited at METS in Amsterdam, I have been taken aback by the number of counterfeit and potentially sub-standard goods on display from far east suppliers. One in particular was showing Rule bilge pumps. They looked identical in every way, but were counterfeit.

In talking with Rule, they were well aware of the problems but said it was just not possible to stop. 'For every factory you close, another starts up the next day.' In asking about the build quality, the reply was unmentionable.

Other stands were showing stainless 'tackle' at crazy low prices. Again, one wonders if these really can take the strain.

This all leaves a bad taste or a question mark at least. How are we to know who supplies a chandler. And when the article fails, then what?

Hmmm. Discuss?
Click to expand...

All very difficult to police I would imagine.....

We make some really big kit for Subsea,Offshore and back deck customers who insist on the raw materials being supplied by Lloyds approved European Mills only with original mill cert's red wet stamped to prove origin...
Chinese steel mills make some horrific steels whose content we've had analysed and you would not believe what the chemical make up is....though the cert's state something all too different!
(and we wonder why the UK steel industry is on it's Ar*e)?

All I can suggest is to request a cert of authenticity but even these are easily forged.
 
I can't believe things like Rule bilge pumps are copied. The fact they are I guess means that jabsco are and a whole host of other gear for the marine market.

So are we guaranteed to avoid such counterfeit goods if we only buy from known suppliers (ASAP, Force4, etc etc), or could there be a risk that these copies dupe buyers from these sorts of companies and therefore get on the shelves of reputable chandlers?
 
Last edited:
RobWales said:
All very difficult to police I would imagine.....

We make some really big kit for Subsea,Offshore and back deck customers who insist on the raw materials being supplied by Lloyds approved European Mills only with original mill cert's red wet stamped to prove origin...
Chinese steel mills make some horrific steels whose content we've had analysed and you would not believe what the chemical make up is....though the cert's state something all too different!
(and we wonder why the UK steel industry is on it's Ar*e)?

All I can suggest is to request a cert of authenticity but even these are easily forged.
Click to expand...

some years ago I was offered a fab deal to replace a host of studs and nuts for inspection plates , lids etc on a bulk carrier with stainless steel. Within 6 months they were heavily corroded and seized !
 
I'm surprised Dutch trading standards let it go. We used to exhibit at several continental motor shows, we had the Dutch VAT man round checking, it was a regular occurrence for trading standards, police and intellectual property solicitors to rock up and clear stands of copyright infringing stock, in Netherlands, Belgium, Germany etc.
 
Firefly625 said:
I can't believe things like Rule bilge pumps are copied. The fact they are I guess means that jabsco are and a whole host of other gear for the marine market.

So are we guaranteed to avoid such counterfeit goods if we only buy from known suppliers (ASAP, Force4, etc etc), or could there be a risk that these copies dupe buyers from these sorts of companies and therefore get on the shelves of reputable chandlers?
Click to expand...

It's a tough call. When business times are hard, who knows what would be done if super big margins are offered. It may even be that the retailer doesn't even know if they've bought through a wholesaler.
 
Piers said:
It's a tough call. When business times are hard, who knows what would be done if super big margins are offered. It may even be that the retailer doesn't even know if they've bought through a wholesaler.
Click to expand...

...and the comfort in knowing you can get a refund on a defect/counterfeit product you bought from a reputable supplier is no good when you are out at sea and it packs up..
 
Sometimes the clue in packaged goods is the actual packaging .
Look for a CE mark with a number .
Ok this can be forged and when the fake Chianese producer is fronted up ,they say it means "Chianese Export " not CE .
How ever a proper EU ,CE product like a bulge pump -will come with a multi language instruction doc .
Often these are missing or obvious poor copies in the fake .
If its from the tinternet @ cheap price and comes as is in a plain bag / box --then where the CE cert + multi language instructions ?
Or if that doc looks a bit thin -say just english ?
 
I visited a Motorbike show in São Paulo a few years ago. It was astonishing the quantity of Chinese lighting kit on display, much of it complete with e11 (UK) approval. None of which was approved, nor necessary for Brazil. All of which had been copied, complete with approval marking. When I tackled some of the miscreants, they didn't even know what the cert meant
 
Firefly625 said:
I can't believe things like Rule bilge pumps are copied. The fact they are I guess means that jabsco are and a whole host of other gear for the marine market.

So are we guaranteed to avoid such counterfeit goods if we only buy from known suppliers (ASAP, Force4, etc etc), or could there be a risk that these copies dupe buyers from these sorts of companies and therefore get on the shelves of reputable chandlers?
Click to expand...

I sell a wide range of products from the big names in the industry (Jabsco amongst them). Reputable outlets have close working relationships with the manufacturers and would not want to jeopardise that by encouraging the distribution of cheap crap coming from unknown sources. I never strive to be the cheapest so am not tempted by the frequent offers we get from copyists. Who needs the hassle when they go wrong, which they almost certainly will? If I have an issue with a genuine product I know I have the support of the manufacturer to sort it. I think the same goes for the vast majority of the UK marine industry. Fleebay and Amazon aren't as selective.
 
When I worked at Microsoft one of the Product Managers told me the only way the could tell that some of the boxed software was fake was to have a lab analyse the packaging materials or DVD because the hologram on the fake DVD looked exactly the same to the naked eye.

Electronics are also faked, everything from fake chips thru to Intel network cards. Basically unless it comes from a reputable dealer there is a chance it is fake whatever it is.

Ants
 
Piers said:
In talking with Rule, they were well aware of the problems but said it was just not possible to stop. 'For every factory you close, another starts up the next day.' In asking about the build quality, the reply was unmentionable.
Click to expand...
It is indeed impossible to stop. I have attended many trade exhibitions as an exhibitor and seen Chinese and Far Eastern people come on to our stands and blatantly photograph our products in close up detail. Frankly we have given up kicking them off because one way or another they will get all the information they want so it is pointless. Luckily in my industry, the European manufacturers have always managed to stay one step ahead of the Chinese through continuous technical innovation and other customer benefits like better after sales support etc but that is not the case in other industries

Frankly I dont know what the answer to counterfeit products is other than the manufacturers concerned rigorously watching their markets, policing their distribution networks, informing their consumers and making sure that politicians and officials who are supposed to regulate their markets are fully aware of the situation
 
years ago i was selling a product round the uk for a percentage of the sales---i was offered a version to sell at at a very high percentage----the version wasn t a copy ----the person who had offered me the deal had been to the factory that made them and got an extra 1000 produced----didn t take them----makes the situation more complicated---fakes? or originals? being sold out of the factory back door
 
We have a small retail business this is a subject that get my back up. WE are all guilty in some shape form or another of encouraging this. We want to buy things cheap, and then complain when it's crap! Why pay 10 when you can get it for 5 is the attitude. Well there is a good chance that 5 is a fake a copy or stolen or from some dodgy company. Why do we send our stuff to China to get manufactured, we all know the the technical plans and drawings going in the front door get copied and then go out the back door. We have big companies to blame and of course the consumer.
 
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