Corroded P bracket and rudders

F

Fjord John

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 Sep 2014
Messages
136
Visit site
Evening all

I’m interested in buying a Broom 33 in Burnham on Crouch. Love the boat but the most obviously issue is the anodes have all but disappeared (boat been in water on mud berth for 5 years with no maintenance). The P brackets and rudders seem solid but show heavy surface corrosion. Obviously I’d get a survey but should I run a mile and wait for a boat that’s been looked after? How much of an issue could the corrosion be? The engines have also not been serviced for 6 years. Asking price is £72k.
Ta John
 

Attachments

  • 40D67561-BE0F-4EDC-820E-42E0DA710062.jpeg
    40D67561-BE0F-4EDC-820E-42E0DA710062.jpeg
    29 KB · Views: 75
  • 582C2103-E53E-41B3-AB1D-8EA300507722.jpeg
    582C2103-E53E-41B3-AB1D-8EA300507722.jpeg
    27.4 KB · Views: 73
Last edited:
Roger Bannister & Seb Coe spring to mind.
Diesel and sulphuric acid enjoy a nasty relationship, which results in a poorly maintained engine not running for a mile, usually when you really need it.
 
Before running I would check the fuel. I would not got out with a 5 year old fuel. Might need replacement, or cleaning. Also the filters...
 
If the price is right I could be tempted - the P brackets and rudders need a proper look by a surveyor. The corrosion may be superficial, it might just sand off or may require some new metal brazing in. Worst case it could require new ones - which can be done but expensive so factor that in. Plus the galvanic electrics need a dose of looking at - easy to sort - probably a few broken wires.
Engines and gear boxes haven't been serviced - OK - have they actually been used at all? If they have just sat there for 6 years since last oil change they should be perfectly OK. Same with the gearboxes. An oil sample analysis would help.
Worst case if you buy it, you could get unlucky and need engine rebuilds. Get an estimate for that so you know what you are risking.
Best case - after a few repairs and a really good service you might have found a bargain - but get a professional engine survey, check tanks for water and diesel bug etc.
If you do end up buying it then it would benefit from a really really good service, all fluids changing, heat exchangers cleaning properly, belts, filters, tank clean/flush, new batteries, the lot, to reveal/remove any issues of lack of use and the fact it's 29 years old anyway.

edit: and a new battery charger - you don't want the old one failing and boiling your nice new batteries.
 
Last edited:
Its difficult to see from photos as they are low res and the props rudders & P Brackets are not clean.

What are the props like, if a corrosion issue they should after the prop nuts be worst of the lot?

Abrade both with wet and dry, wash off and look at the colour if they are a bronze colour like an old penny reasonably dark they are ok if they are pink you have a problem.

Dezynicification shows as going pink which means the zinc is taken from the bronze leaving a copper sponge w hen you hit them with a hammer they sound dull rather than ringing like a bell.

Possibly put in a low price and get the surveyor to give you the ammunition to reduce to cover defects.

Was the boat in seawater or brackish water?
 
John, would also suggest that the shafts really need drawing as well to check for pitting inside both the cutlass bearing and stern gland.
A couple of new shafts will be £1000 plus bits , not counting labour and lifts etc. and will have to be done.
Whats props like ? thats another £1200 for new or possibly half that for refurb.
Nothing there would make me run away but the price would need to be mega right, its not just the replacement costs but you have got to sort the problems and the boat will not be usable for some time especially if you need the "P" brackets cast to order and machined.
The rudder blades and "P" brackets if sound,could be made to soldier on for bit. ?
Chum of mine has just bought a nice ready to go 1993 Broom 33 from Bray Marina for substantially less than that when he made an offer on the asking.
The ad is still active but the boat is marked as sold.
 
Last edited:
Bandit said:
Its difficult to see from photos as they are low res and the props rudders & P Brackets are not clean.

What are the props like, if a corrosion issue they should after the prop nuts be worst of the lot?

Abrade both with wet and dry, wash off and look at the colour if they are a bronze colour like an old penny reasonably dark they are ok if they are pink you have a problem.

Dezynicification shows as going pink which means the zinc is taken from the bronze leaving a copper sponge w hen you hit them with a hammer they sound dull rather than ringing like a bell.

Possibly put in a low price and get the surveyor to give you the ammunition to reduce to cover defects.

Was the boat in seawater or brackish water?
Click to expand...
Hi Bandwit, thanks for your thoughts. She was on the Blackwater, so I assume brackish.
 
kashurst said:
If the price is right I could be tempted - the P brackets and rudders need a proper look by a surveyor. The corrosion may be superficial, it might just sand off or may require some new metal brazing in. Worst case it could require new ones - which can be done but expensive so factor that in. Plus the galvanic electrics need a dose of looking at - easy to sort - probably a few broken wires.
Engines and gear boxes haven't been serviced - OK - have they actually been used at all? If they have just sat there for 6 years since last oil change they should be perfectly OK. Same with the gearboxes. An oil sample analysis would help.
Worst case if you buy it, you could get unlucky and need engine rebuilds. Get an estimate for that so you know what you are risking.
Best case - after a few repairs and a really good service you might have found a bargain - but get a professional engine survey, check tanks for water and diesel bug etc.
If you do end up buying it then it would benefit from a really really good service, all fluids changing, heat exchangers cleaning properly, belts, filters, tank clean/flush, new batteries, the lot, to reveal/remove any issues of lack of use and the fact it's 29 years old anyway.

edit: and a new battery charger - you don't want the old one failing and boiling your nice new batteries.
Click to expand...
Cashurst, thanks for your thoughts. Really appreciated. To answer your question, the broker said the owner occasionally ran up the engines. Maybe that’s not a good thing is he wasn’t servicing them?!
 
oldgit said:
John, would also suggest that the shafts really need drawing as well to check for pitting inside both the cutlass bearing and stern gland.
A couple of new shafts will be £1000 plus bits , not counting labour and lifts etc. and will have to be done.
Whats props like ? thats another £1200 for new or possibly half that for refurb.
Nothing there would make me run away but the price would need to be mega right, its not just the replacement costs but you have got to sort the problems and the boat will not be usable for some time especially if you need the "P" brackets cast to order and machined.
The rudder blades and "P" brackets if sound,could be made to soldier on for bit. ?
Chum of mine has just bought a nice ready to go 1993 Broom 33 from Bray Marina for substantially less than that when he made an offer on the asking.
The ad is still active but the boat is marked as sold.
Click to expand...
Thanks Oldgit, here are the props. There is a spare pair on board that look similar.
 

Attachments

  • 157369D8-D59B-442C-AA6B-F5853B4D0FD4.jpeg
    157369D8-D59B-442C-AA6B-F5853B4D0FD4.jpeg
    97.4 KB · Views: 37
  • C7A09FAA-0B5D-4D28-BF49-E407903F6CAC.jpeg
    C7A09FAA-0B5D-4D28-BF49-E407903F6CAC.jpeg
    100.9 KB · Views: 34
Fyord John said:
Cashurst, thanks for your thoughts. Really appreciated. To answer your question, the broker said the owner occasionally ran up the engines. Maybe that’s not a good thing is he wasn’t servicing them?!
Click to expand...
yes and no. You will get lots of opinions on this. Ultimately it's a thirty year old boat and engines. At some point it will probably have owners who looked after it very well and others who neglected it. That's the same with any older boat even if it has lots of recent history. A good survey will reveal the worst, and engine survey and oil check will reveal any age/neglect issues.
If you are interested make a low offer explain why and go from there. If the owner is interested get a survey and see what that reveals.
Ultimately there will be things wrong - a) it's a boat and b) it's 30 years old and c) that will cost money to fix properly.
Don't assume you can just buy it and sail away. It sounds like it needs properly sorting to get it to good condition again and some aspects like tank cleaning/checking/engine servicing etc need to be done to make sure any/no further damage is created by accident before you go anywhere.
All you can do is mitigate the risk and go ahead with your eyes wide open to the potential risks if you get unlucky.
Brooms are well made boats, TAMD 41s are a good solid engine.

edit what Oldgit posted applies too - chances are the shafts are fine, but a survey probably won't reveal that- only way to know is to pull them out. You can't really do that until you own it though. Spare props sounds good. The colour unless bright and polished is no help. Need a surveyor with a hammer to make them go tingggg! = good, or thud! = scrap
 
Last edited:
kashurst said:
yes and no. You will get lots of opinions on this. Ultimately it's a thirty year old boat and engines. At some point it will probably have owners who looked after it very well and others who neglected it. That's the same with any older boat even if it has lots of recent history. A good survey will reveal the worst, and engine survey and oil check will reveal any age/neglect issues.
If you are interested make a low offer explain why and go from there. If the owner is interested get a survey and see what that reveals.
Ultimately there will be things wrong - a) it's a boat and b) it's 30 years old and c) that will cost money to fix properly.
Don't assume you can just buy it and sail away. It sounds like it needs properly sorting to get it to good condition again and some aspects like tank cleaning/checking/engine servicing etc need to be done to make sure any/no further damage is created by accident before you go anywhere.
All you can do is mitigate the risk and go ahead with your eyes wide open to the potential risks if you get unlucky.
Brooms are well made boats, TAMD 41s are a good solid engine.
Click to expand...
Thanks Kashurst. I’m weighing up the pros and cons. Price being one of those. If I were to proceed do you, or anyone else have a surveyor and engineer you would recommend that would cover Burnham on Crouch? Sadly Volvo Paul doesn’t cover this area.
 
Stainless shaft corrosion inside the cutlass bearing .Carbon in the rubber sleeve caused the problem.
Series of pits right round the shaft which matched the rubber grooves in the cutlass bearing.
Assume the shaft was stationary inside the bearing for some time.



 
Last edited:
The props don't look pink, but a bit of wet and dry will show if you have pinking.

I am not familiar with the effects of boats drying out in mud, it could be a deposit or staining from the mud if the props, rudders and struts are not pink.

I have seen shaft corrosion several times as Oldgit shows in photos, it can also be crevice corrosion.
 
t
oldgit said:
Stainless shaft corrosion inside the cutlass bearing .Carbon in the rubber sleeve caused the problem.
Series of pits right round the shaft which matched the rubber grooves in the cutlass bearing.
Assume the shaft was stationary inside the bearing for some time.



Click to expand...
Thanks OG, that looks serious and expensive! I know the boat has largely been unused for 5 years. How do I establish the potential problem if this can only be assessed post purchase? Also do you know a good survey that might cover Burnham?
 
simonfraser said:
however good the survey i dont think they can see inside an engine or check out a fitted shaft
as said previously you are going to have to make sure the boat is cheap enough to allow for some repairs
have you taken a 'project' like this on b4 ?
Click to expand...
Hi Simon, useful steer, thank you. In a nutshell the price needs to be very attractive to provide some mitigation against what may lerk beyond sight. And it will be a gamble as to whether there is enough or too much in the kitty. Yep, I’ve done some projects before. I guess just trying to get a feel for some of the bigger potential jobs. John
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top