correct way to take on a larger boats wake

markcw said:
oldgit said:
Is this April the 1st or something ? ....


Defently not, the wake realy took me by suprise:eek:, i did my rya level 1-2 on the solent, so should not be suprised, just before we hit it was when i realised how deep the wake was and re shouted to my wife and kids to hang on, but by then we had gone over and nose down. poor kids were trenched and had to change there clothing

Thing is the fly bridge cruiser was motoring, not cruising speed as you could tell by the noise of the engines, i can remember saying to my wife "god he motoring"

Thanks for advice, and personaly ive got more inportant thing to do than come in here and tell porkies.:mad:
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Mark - I think the April 1st dig was at DAKA's advice about taking the wave beam on - not doubting your story :)
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thanks ripster
The reasion i wrote this topic is to find out a better way than what i have been trained by the rya, by the look of it, what way is best, i certainly dont know.

Realy wish i had videoed it, but then again i would of nakerd the camera, it happend not far from the tip of hope nose, could the swell of been mixed up with the wake.?????
 
Just go over it at 90deg in planing mode, but only just, so you will ride over the waves. Because you were going slow your boat just fell in the trough and the next wave came over the bow. Simple
 
We turn 45 degrees in towards the track of the passing vessel once clear, this puts us at about 75-80 degrees to their V wake. Turning 90 degrees on to their track makes no sense just loads of rolling from their transom wave.

There is no one size fits all answer, depends on relative sizes of craft involved, wind, seas state, speed, etc.

Ps. Some times we just take it, sometimes accelerate, sometimes turn but usually only when at displacement speeds. At planing speeds it fine, or even a bit of fun.
 
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Like has been said, its all about trying out different techniques. I would start with the 30-45 deg approach with "some" power kept on so you have forward energy through the water and keep the bow up a bit to avoid it burying itself and splashing up and over. Go out and try some different approaches see how it works. Just put your wetsuits and goggles on :D
 
oceanfroggie said:
We turn 45 degrees in towards the track of the passing vessel once clear, this puts us at about 75-80 degrees to their V wake. Turning 90 degrees on to their track makes no sense just loads of rolling from their transom wave.

There is no one size fits all answer, depends on relative sizes of craft involved, wind, seas state, speed, etc.

Ps. Some times we just take it, sometimes accelerate, sometimes turn but usually only when at displacement speeds. At planing speeds it fine, or even a bit of fun.
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Sorry if it was unclear but I meant 90deg to their wake, so head on into the wave.
 
We once hired a Dorey in Santropa?? Came towards the harbour just as Virgin Chalenger and a mate came out and gave it the gun. Me and the kids saw what was happening, but the Ex was blissfully unaware, She shot up about three feet, then slammed down breaking the quite subtatial seat. She had a sore bum for quite a while after.
 
rbcoomer said:
Hit them hard enough and you can try jumping all at once
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I suppose this was meant as a tongue in cheek comment.
But that's actually my standard approach when crossing ferry wakes on the lake.
There are two caveats for that:
Firstly, you must go REAL fast, say 50mph or more.
Secondly, there's no room for correction in such maneuver: close the throttle too early, and you're going to smash the boat and its content. Close it too late (or don't re-open it promptly on re-entry), and you can wave goodbye to your outdrive.
But if handled properly, it's one of the most exhilarating maneuvers you can experience with a small speedboat.

That aside, I'm afraid that the answer to the OP question is it depends.
Bearing in mind that a small speed boat rolls like there's no tomorrow when cruising at displacement speed, slowing down to less than 10 kts is very rarely a good idea. It might be better to keep some speed and follow the route of the big boat for a while, crossing its wakes almost parallel to them - say 5 to 10 degrees.
This way, it will take longer to cross its wakes, but it they are really big, you'll be going up and down with just a bit of rolling (but not too bad).
Crossing at 45 degrees and slower speed might be ok if you can still do that without slowing down too much - which might have not been the case according to your description.
As I said, it depends.
And I'm afraid that the only ways to learn how to evaluate the best approach are practice, practice, and practice.
 
You had some good tips off the Panel marcw.
When we instruct peeps on rough water handling during the RYA Advanced course the following is mentioned when 'attacking' a head sea
'It's all about the angle of approach and throttle control plus 'trim'.
Plus as 'Mappy' said
Practice practice and practice
Which hactually innit! goes for just about all forms of boat handling!
Here's a tip, which may help you not finding your boat in a tip!
Even though you might venture out on a nice calm day be prepared for a bit of rough stuff
Like stow everything as if you are going to meet the Perfect Storm!
I know that sounds a bit over the top but when you get a bit over the top it wont feel so bad.
Stuff bouncing about and rattlin about makes it seem worse and to the crew as well
Plus try to helm with one hand on the wheel and one ready on the throttle
Like the wake you experienced or maybe a floating object or maybe on of em dam raggie whatsits tick tackin in front of you. all these 'unexpecteds' can be unexpected so if you are ready to change course or adjust speed life will be smoother on board.
As to the question as to which angle de blah de blah
You have had all the answers
There are merits in all the replies
RYA PB2? it is a cracking course and syllabus
No time really to go in depth about rough water handling on the Course
Especially if conditions during the two days don't lend themselves to that area of boat handling.
On the Advanced course we look for rough water!
I remember doing mine with Tim Griffin of this Parish off the IOW!
Ha. Tim1 I had the 'following sea' bit
Learnt nuffink, Tee Hee!
 
Thanks all

Will have to do some training when next on boat, hopefully with out the kids i will try various and see how the hull of my boat reacts, wont be for a few weeks as the wheel bearing busted on the trailer when driving home this week.:(

luckaly the boat was all packed away and everything in it place, but the amount of water that came over just found its way down the back of the seats and in the side storage walls, just have to be very carefull as my two twinks are at that age were they can be very frightend and having them bounce around on the boat is not want i wont. stupid thing is i have had this boat for 2 years and my 18ft fletcher for 2yrs previous to that and never incounterd this before, how can you be preapred for the unexpected if you dont know what to expect.:confused::confused:

Previous wakes from boats with my current boat the 21ft wellcraft have been good, and i have allways reduced my speed and 90dg, but maybe the answer from all your great comments is there is no one way, its all dependent on certain conditions and if you get it wrong like i did things will go wrong and face the consequences:eek::eek::eek:

Any way thanks again, think this topic has been well and trully used up.

mark
 
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MapisM said:
I suppose this was meant as a tongue in cheek comment.
But that's actually my standard approach when crossing ferry wakes on the lake.
There are two caveats for that:
Firstly, you must go REAL fast, say 50mph or more.
Secondly, there's no room for correction in such maneuver: close the throttle too early, and you're going to smash the boat and its content. Close it too late (or don't re-open it promptly on re-entry), and you can wave goodbye to your outdrive.
But if handled properly, it's one of the most exhilarating maneuvers you can experience with a small speedboat....
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That comment was partly tongue in cheek, but I have seen it done! I can jump off incoming waves and in the small 2-3' height range this is great fun in ours, but sadly not enough hp to attempt a wake jump... :D

I have quickly figured out that conditions vary and what works on one occasion won't necessarily the next. Waters off Hopes Nose can get very 'confused' anyway and throw in a big wake and I can see how Mark & family got wet! The water there is quite shallow and then drops off quite quickly to deeper water. Combine this with being a fairly exposed headland and you get some strong currents. In a boat the size or Mark's he's probably better off a little further out where currents are less at odds with the waves/wakes. In our 14' I wasn't sure how to attack waves there - they appeared to be coming from multiple directions. First time on a 'lively' day and thinking we'd get flipped over I slowed down on first attempt... BIG mistake = drenched! :eek: Plan B was to open the taps and try and steer a course through them at planing speed. Result: much better. Once you get used to be thrown about a little and the continual course corrections (worse in smaller boat) it's actually really good fun! The secret for me was figuring the gap between the crests vs our speed and then adjusting our attack angle accordingly - hence the practice comments. I don't think it's particularly something you can be told as such, but more something you need to experience/feel first hand? I'm guessing it will become second nature with experience, but in the meanwhile I'm expecting to get it wrong a few times and thus get wet! For me that's the fun of learning... :o

There's quite a few experienced posters on here who are local, and perhaps someone would go out with you on a more 'lumpy' day to practice/build confidence if you wanted? I'm quite lucky in that I have a friend with much more experience/confidence and have been out on his 19' Sportscruiser a few times as well as cruising in company - thus you pick up a few tips and get to see how different boats handle. The difference even between 19' and 14' is amazing and although I'm looking to get a 21' shortly myself (for family/practical reasons), I'll probably keep the 14' as it's not worth much and is just so much more lively! :D That said, I can understand you not seeking 'lively' with little ones aboard - cold wet kids isn't good.
 
You have to have enough speed to drive the bow up the second wave. Its hard to give to exact help as each circumstance will be different. 45 degrees sounds too wide an angle to me on the kind of wake you describe; not straight into it, but at a slight angle- the idea is to "lengthen" the wave. Definitely to not go too wide an angle with little speed or the boat will roll about alarmingly.
So, full whack dead into the wake will get you through but with alot of bashing about and the prop out of the water :)So the two extremes are too fast over the top of the wave, and too slow in the trough. In a sea swell it is practical to slow down and accelerate wave to wave, but I never found it very practical in wake as the waves are so close together that you'd need a very fast boat to change speeds in time.
Slight angle with maybe 10-15 knots will push you through dry. But its just a question of experience and gauging it right- and sometimes we all get it wrong.
At least you now know what didnt work, so thats lesson one !!
 
In the situation you describe, where you're not at all restricted in how wide you can go, then i'd always stay on the plane. In the time you would spend slowing down and plodding through at 45 degs, you could be a few hundred yards further away from the path of the cruiser, so the wake will have mellowed. As you approach the wake at planing speed, you can judge the best angle of approach, but with the dynamic stability you have by planing, you can indeed run almost parallel with the wake as Daka suggests without the boat rolling too much, and this has the effect of substantially increasing the apparent wave period. I've generally found this the most comfortable and dry way to cross large boat wakes in a small boat.
 
Thanks for advice, and personaly ive got more important things to do than come in here and tell porkies.


"Not having a go at you" :)

Remark was a comment on Dakas post to take the wake wash of any big fast boat passing close by beam on.
Three or four deep steep troughs in close sucession will cause your boat to roll very severely !
When boat passes some distance away the wake will lengthen out and become more shallow.
May well try Dakas interesting and novel suggestion (when alone on boat) sometime during my next 50 years of boating :):):)
 
Oh- one other way if there is room (Re NickH point about space) is turn round, keep up some speed and let the waves pass from behind.
I m more with oldgit on the beam-on approach- not my prefered choice- though again it all depends on the circumstance.
 
wake broad side on

I'm not on a wind up (very rare I intentionally do that save April 1st).



I have tried to explain this several years ago and no one grasped it so I will try again........

this is exactly the same approach I take in my Princess 360 and Zodiac 3.1 m dinghy (especially if dressed up on the way to a restaurant), it avoids crashing through the wake and getting soaked.

Carry on at speed (the last thing you want to do is drop your bow to stuff it into the second wave)

At the last moment alter course to run just about parallel to the wash, you will rise up and lower down as the wash passes under you, the second wave will sort of grab you in a chine plane heal for a very short duration before you rise up and down for a second time before you resume course.

If it is massive (seacat/container ship) you might want to do the same for the second pair of wake waves.

Its important that you warn crew the boat is going to heal and they should be sat down but there is no need ever to slow for wake.

I am amazed so many take wake on at 45 degrees, the only time I do that is for a photo shoot ;)

IMG_1428.jpg
 
We dont go for a correct way or a right way to take on boat wakes. We just take on each situation as it arises. Sometimes you can be a little limited as to how you will take on the wake.

The example below wasnt one of our better attempts but we had little other choice :D

(Excuse fenderage)

 
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