Correct size of anchor - new gen against old

[C08]

I was interested to read, in the ST 'article' that 'scoop' style anchors could jam-up with substrate, making them difficult to reset. Also that they come to the surface with a fair old divot attached. True or false?

A good point!
10 years and lots of anchoring with a 16Kg delta with 8mm chain on a 3T cat and only dragged once (Jenny cove at plymouth I think where there was mostly rock & weed) but a number of times when the hook was up there was a clay ball on the anchor which took a deal of effort to shift with a boat hook end despite the flare of the Delta expected to shed this. I wonder whether a concave shape anchor would retain a clay ball better and be less effective at re-setting under some circumstances? Its a bit of a lottery-go for the higher pull out force of a new generation anchor or the possibly better re-setting of the better of the older generation anchors? Come to think of it perhaps we are being brain washed by a bit of spin-"new generation anchors" when the whole thing is just a normal evolution of design improvement not something "new" being invented.

 

[awol]

Another one to consider is the Knox. They too recommend 6.5kg for a 3 tonne, 9 metre boat and it's made in the UK (until next Sept. anyway).

 

[KellysEye]

What a magazine should do is hire (say) 12 Sunsail boats of the same size and make to test 12 anchors just before a gale comes through. Then anchor them in a bay with same amount of chain or chain/rode and then wait and see what happens. Doubtless one or more rescue boats will be needed. Only then will I believe anchor tests.

 

[Neeves]

What a magazine should do is hire (say) 12 Sunsail boats of the same size and make to test 12 anchors just before a gale comes through. Then anchor them in a bay with same amount of chain or chain/rode and then wait and see what happens. Doubtless one or more rescue boats will be needed. Only then will I believe anchor tests.

Its a great idea except that magazines are strapped for cash. I think Sunsail will be very supportive of the idea. I am quite happy to be flown out from Oz to any where in the Med to observe (they are going to need lots of people) on one of the yachts.

Solve the media cash problem and magazines will do any sensible test possible.

(Most) magazines, usually, do the best they can within the confines of a restricted budget.

Jonathan

 

[grumpy_o_g]

And oh by the way, best advice I got regarding anchor size is: the biggest which will fit your bow roller. Which is exactly what I bought.

+1 Surely you want the biggest you can afford/handle/fit on your boat? The question is really what is the minimum size you can get away with for the type of anchoring you do...

 

[JumbleDuck]

What a magazine should do is hire (say) 12 Sunsail boats of the same size and make to test 12 anchors just before a gale comes through. Then anchor them in a bay with same amount of chain or chain/rode and then wait and see what happens. Doubtless one or more rescue boats will be needed. Only then will I believe anchor tests.

That's not much of a test. Similar loading, similar bottom conditions and similar deployment won't say much about how a range of anchors works in different conditions when appropriately used.

 

[noelex]

What a magazine should do is hire (say) 12 Sunsail boats of the same size and make to test 12 anchors just before a gale comes through. Then anchor them in a bay with same amount of chain or chain/rode and then wait and see what happens. Doubtless one or more rescue boats will be needed. Only then will I believe anchor tests.

This test happens naturally in many Mediterranean anchorages
You need to discount 50% of the boats because of poor technique (scope too short etc), but if you watch boats anchor these mistakes are obvious.
It is a great practical indication of the anchors that work well.

 

[geem]

This test happens naturally in many Mediterranean anchorages
You need to discount 50% of the boats because of poor technique (scope too short etc), but if you watch boats anchor these mistakes are obvious.
It is a great practical indication of the anchors that work well.

Yep, your right. I've watched this many times and drawn my own conclusions about which anchors dig in well which ones don't. If you anchor regularly and watch others around you, You don't need half baked magazine tests to tell you.
If you are ever fortunate enough to snorkel when somebody is anchoring near you you may be surprised how anchors behave when they are digging in. Even more interesting when the guy on the helm applies too much reverse throttle and he wonders why the anchor won't set. this would be a good subject for a magazine test cos most people who are anchoring novices apply too much reverse throttle before they have laid chain on the seabed.

 

[Neeves]

Most modern anchors are very forgiving, deploy them in a decent seabed (and most people tend to congregate in well known anchorages with decent seabeds) and with a scope of about 2:1, 3:1 4:1 etc and they will set (and will remain set even if revs are 'high'). Though 2:1 (nor 3:1) is not to be recommended . This is one of the major advantages of modern anchors, they set easily, consistently and quickly. They do not demand the chain be on the seabed to set and will remain set even when the chain is consistently lifted (winds over about 20 knot). Why they (modern anchors) are not part of standard kit on a charter yacht remains one of life's great mysteries. 'Half baked' magazine tests have been saying this since about 2006 and if they had not publicised, fairly consistently, the advantages of modern anchors - no-one would ever have heard of Rocna et al. And if no-one had ever been able to read about modern anchors - no-one would be able to use their scuba skills to reinforce what has been published

Happy New Year

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

And if no-one had ever been able to read about modern anchors - no-one would be able to use their scuba skills to reinforce what has been published

Happy New Year

Jonathan

Eh? Bit of a non-sequitor there, surely?

 

[Neeves]

Eh? Bit of a non-sequitor there, surely?

Don't be picky it might be an anchor thread but - its almost New Year, or it is here.



Jonathan

 

[Fascadale]

+1 Surely you want the biggest you can afford/handle/fit on your boat?

+1

I have a 16kg Manson on my 26ft longkeeler

It has allowed me to sleep soundly through some fearsome winds and held first time in Canna (an achievement for any anchor I can assure you)

These good people http://www.morganscloud.com/2013/12/16/36-tips-to-get-anchored-and-stay-anchored-part-1-gear/ also seem to suggest that size matters

 

[NormanS]

Yes, as Neeves has reminded us, it's almost New Year.
A guid, and safe New Year to all anchoring enthusiasts. Keep hanging in there.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It has allowed me to sleep soundly through some fearsome winds and held first time in Canna (an achievement for any anchor I can assure you)

I shall give my 25lb CQR a congratulatory pat next time I see it!

 

[VicMallows]

And oh by the way, best advice I got regarding anchor size is: the biggest which will fit your bow roller. Which is exactly what I bought.

Given the pathetically small bow rollers on some modern boats that could be dangerous advice

 

[KellysEye]

>That's not much of a test. Similar loading, similar bottom conditions and similar deployment won't say much about how a range of anchors works in different conditions when appropriately used.

Current anchor tests don't fulfil how a range of anchors works in different conditions when appropriately used, in fact the opposite. The great majority of anchor tests are straight line pull on a single bottom and don't even take into account snatch loads which is why I don't believe them. I would agree about the 12 boat test being limited but at least it's a start and could move on the different bottoms and conditions

The magazines should try to get the anchor companies to fund testing, it would be interesting to see who will get involved and those that don't.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The magazines should try to get the anchor companies to fund testing, it would be interesting to see who will get involved and those that don't.

I can't see the point. As long as you get a reasonably well manufactured one, buy a reasonably sized one and use it reasonably, all anchors work ... well, reasonably. Sure, the very, very small number of people who regularly anchor in hurricanes may have more exactly requirements, but for round the UK it Just Doesn't Matter Much.