Correct lights to display at night

S

SeamanStaines

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 Sep 2009
Messages
454
Location
Somewhere in the Mediteranean
Visit site
Ok,

So when you are woken up by the wind alarm in the middle of the night (40kts in an anchorage for pity's sake) and discover (when you are hailed from an adjacent boat) that you are now dragging out to sea, what are the correct lights to display!

And don't just say nav and steaming as that implies an engine was running, it wasn't on the count of making the rookie mistake (I cant believe I did this!) of wrapping the line to the kayak around the propeller)

Sometimes, sailing is not better than working!
 
Hmm. Not under command eh.

We sometimes see large cruise ships showing these lights at night off the S Peloponnese. We assume they shut of their main propulsion generators to drift and give their new guests, joined at Athens, a good first night's sleep on the short route to Olympia.

In your case I think the glow from your hyperactive brain and body would suffice!
 
jimbaerselman said:
Hmm. Not under command eh.

We sometimes see large cruise ships showing these lights at night off the S Peloponnese. We assume they shut of their main propulsion generators to drift and give their new guests, joined at Athens, a good first night's sleep on the short route to Olympia.

In your case I think the glow from your hyperactive brain and body would suffice!
Click to expand...

For the yacht unable to start engine dragging anchor NUC.

The cruise ships nope, they have chosen to stop there engines they are under command, they have just chosen to drift...
 
onesea said:
For the yacht unable to start engine dragging anchor NUC.

The cruise ships nope, they have chosen to stop there engines they are under command, they have just chosen to drift...
Click to expand...

Even though it's not reflected in the rules, when drifting it's often better for all concerned to show NUC shapes/lights as it then means there's no ambiguity between vessels. Continuing to show steaming lights when the main engine is shut down when in an effective crossing situation is often a recipe for confusion and panic - remember that on motor ships their engines often can't be started instantly, taking as long as perhaps 20-30 minutes to flash up. Then there are steam ships....
 
Rule 3:-

(f) The term “vessel not under command” means a vessel which through some exceptional
circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep
out of the way of another vessel.


(i) The word “underway” means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.
 
DJE said:
Rule 3:-

(f) The term “vessel not under command” means a vessel which through some exceptional
circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep
out of the way of another vessel.


(i) The word “underway” means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.
Click to expand...

Correct, but the harsh realities of the real world are somewhat different.
 
From a thread here in 2006

Perhaps you would care to flip through your copy of Cockcroft - "At the 1972 Conference it was considered that adverse weather conditions seriously affecting a vessel's ability to manoeuvre would be exceptional circumstances. However, the fact that a vessel's ability to manoeuvre is affected by weather conditions does not necessarily mean that she is not under command. The conditions must be so exceptional, with respect to the particular vessel, as to render her unable to keep out of the way of another vessel by alteration of course and/or speed in order to justify the showing of not under command signals.

In addition to vessels which have had a breakdown of engines or steering gear, or which have lost a propeller or rudder, examples of vessels which are likely to be accepted as being not under command under the 1972 Rules are: a vessel with her anchor down but not holding, a vessel riding to anchor chains with anchors unshackled, and a sailing vessel becalmed."
Click to expand...
 
SeamanStaines said:
Ok,

So when you are woken up by the wind alarm in the middle of the night (40kts in an anchorage for pity's sake) and discover (when you are hailed from an adjacent boat) that you are now dragging out to sea, what are the correct lights to display!

And don't just say nav and steaming as that implies an engine was running, it wasn't on the count of making the rookie mistake (I cant believe I did this!) of wrapping the line to the kayak around the propeller)

Sometimes, sailing is not better than working!
Click to expand...

NUC but I bet you don't have the lights and shapes for that.
In which case, just the anchor light is your best bet.
 
jrc1983 said:
Even though it's not reflected in the rules, when drifting it's often better for all concerned to show NUC shapes/lights as it then means there's no ambiguity between vessels. Continuing to show steaming lights when the main engine is shut down when in an effective crossing situation is often a recipe for confusion and panic - remember that on motor ships their engines often can't be started instantly, taking as long as perhaps 20-30 minutes to flash up. Then there are steam ships....
Click to expand...

Absolute rollocks!

A vessel if it is drifting should account enough space to start its engines, what about the others:

A Dynamic positioned drill rig?
Fishing boat?
Dive support ship,
ROV Support Vessel.
Seismic vessel? with 4km cables?
Navy doing ship to ship...
The ocean tow with unwieldy tow behind,

They all have to stop operations/ change because some dum ass captain decided they needed an easy nights sleep....

Why do you not put yellow flashing light on your car, to say you want every one to get out of your cause you are so "special"..
 
onesea said:
Absolute rollocks!

A vessel if it is drifting should account enough space to start its engines, what about the others:

A Dynamic positioned drill rig?
Fishing boat?
Dive support ship,
ROV Support Vessel.
Seismic vessel? with 4km cables?
Navy doing ship to ship...
The ocean tow with unwieldy tow behind,

They all have to stop operations/ change because some dum ass captain decided they needed an easy nights sleep....

Why do you not put yellow flashing light on your car, to say you want every one to get out of your cause you are so "special"..
Click to expand...

Most ships invariably only drift in open water, clear of obstructions. Nobody in their right mind drifts in either a shipping lane or near an obstruction (floating or otherwise) and without consideration of the effects of wind and current.
Have you ever been on a ship, fresh out of port with the (small) crew knackered and with time to waste until the next port, on a ship where the 'office' are putting all their Masters under pressure to avoid unnecessary steaming miles due to bunker prices and are equally against anchoring/remaining alongside due to possible port dues and/or jurisdictional issues?
Drifting is a fact of life for many ships, and with the nature of manning levels these days and limitations on the equipment often meaning it's impossible in practical terms to keep the Engine Room manned all night and everything ready to go at a moments notice.


Consider this:

You're drifting, at night (on ship A), with all your 'steaming' lights on etc.
Suddenly a ship appears on the horizon, say 12 miles away, on your beam, on a heading perpendicular to your own. When the watchkeeper on the other ship (Ship B) can see you are showing the usual steaming lights and 'Under way' is visible on AIS, that then denotes this is a possible crossing situation and therefore puts the onus on Ship A to keep out of his way, i.e. flashup and move. Fair Enough?
Now, consider that ship B is a 340m long box boat making 25 knots. You see him at maximum visible range of 12 miles and also on Radar, but he's still too far away to establish for definite just how close he will pass. 12 miles at 25 knots is 30 minutes till he's on top of you.
Your vessel, Ship A, has a slow speed diesel/steam turbine and is shut down, has the usual unmanned Engine Room and the Engineers are turned in for the night.
By the time the watchkeeper on Ship A can establish that a risk of collision exists, lets say 10 minutes have gone past. Said watchkeeper mutters some oaths and gets on the phone to the Old Man, Chief and Duty Engineer.
Cue subdued panic as various people around the ship extract themselves from a deep sleep, try to haul their gear on and stagger off below to the Engine Room, still half asleep and not entirely sure what's going on.
How close is the other ship by now, say 6 miles or 15 minutes from collision?
By this point, the duty officer on ship B is beginning to feel part of his anatomy twitch, and has called his 'Old Man' to the bridge to observe Ship A dead ahead, which has all her lights on but is taking no action, yet a close quarter situation is less than 15 minutes away and ship A is the give way vessel.
The Officers on Ship B think of the possibilities; is ship A simply drifting and therefore won't move, in which could we then pass either side of him safely? Or, will his engine suddenly burst into life and he'll begin to slowly turn away leaving Ship B to maintain her course and speed as per the rules?
Similar thoughts are occurring in the minds of those on Ship A - cue the ALDIS lamp being broken out to give the time honoured 5 rapid flashes, or perhaps a VHF call. Those on Ship A aren't quite sure what's happening yet regarding engine availability as the Chief is gradually flashing up the plant - will we have time to move before Ship B hits us, or will we have to immediately change to NUC and ask Ship B to move in contravention of the rules? What if Ship B can't understand English/is poor at Morse, how do we communicate? The Old Man gives the Chief a call in the Control Room urging him to hurry up.
Indecision and uncertainty reign on both bridges.
Then, just as the Chief on Ship A telephones up to confirm the Engines are ready for 'Standby' the old Man puts the telegraph to half ahead and the helm hard over.
Unfortunately those on Ship B have also put their helm hard over, as per Rule 17 (actions by the Stand On Vessel) as its apparent Ship A isn't obeying the rules. If they're lucky, both will pass very close and have a near miss. If they're not lucky, well...


Or, instead of all that, Ship A could haul up her two black balls/red lights, switch her AIS to 'NUC' and then both parties know immediately where they stand when some 12 miles apart - Ship A can't move, so the other must alter for him. A simple, if not quite completely 'by the book' application of the rules with no room for confusion.


So, out of the two scenarios, which is the most sensible course of action?
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry, but if I'm woken in the middle of the night, the last thing on my mind will be to ensure I'm showing the correct blooming lights!

The first priority will be to re set the anchor!
 
Sound asleep to fully alert within a minute or so, clad in pj's and up on deck. Yep, the lights were not a concern at all aside of my head torch to see what i was doing. Anchor up, kettle on, motor back in, anchor down, kettle on again - did the trick, lovely cup of tea :)
 
.Never read Cockroft.
Far be it for me to disagree with Cockcroft
While given the situation it may be permissible to Show NUC lights and shapes if dragging anchor.

As DJE has pointed out vessel underway is a vessel not secured to the shore anchored or aground.

Showing NUC lights with Anchor Light or lights. Is the lights for a vessel aground.

Turning of the anchor light would give the impression the anchor was aweigh which its not.
If you keep dragging the lights for a vessel aground may soon be required.

Scruff also pointed out the correct lighting is at this point not my highest priority.
Id just leave the anchor light on until I raise my sails and heave the anchor and change my lighting.

There will be someone along soon to tell me this will be impossible.

You have a choice more cable additional anchor and hope it works, if not your situation gets worse.
My preference pick it up if under sail to another position a re set with more rode possible 2 anchors.

Of course I am making an assumption its a sail boat
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top