Cornish Cruising has incredibly safe boats.

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Woodlouse said:
I have to say though, if you got on a particular boat for the first time and found that it was sailing like a dog, would you really think the keel had fallen off? Personally it would be the last thing I would have thought of. Though now, having heard this tale I'd be raising the question every time I seem to be making rather excessive leeway...
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When racing I sometimes ask those on the rail to check if the keel is still there. It makes a change from telling them to hike harder. Merely checking improves pointing and reduces leeway.

Perhaps after this you'll see cruising crew hanging out over the lower guardrail and staring at the keel.
 
photodog said:
Anyways... just goes to show how good the average sailor on a charter yacht is..... They cant even tell if they have a keel or not!
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Whaddyamean!? Mike Golding only managed 50 miles without a keel. These charterers have beaten that.
 
Captn D said:
It gets more incredulous with each added piece of info. This story is worthy of a chapter amongst the most amazing sailing yarns of all time.

On further reflection, and not wanting to knock what has been told to "Scillypete", isn't it more likely that the damage was done on Little Kettle, but the keel did not actually fall off until it was noticed by the second charters near the Helford? This would make the story a little more understandable. Or has the keel actually been seen near Little Kettle?
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Oh krap getting me kettles n kitterns mixed it was the little kittern which is off St Agnes Konfusing eh!
 
Right some more data from someone what was there. I was in the Helford that evening on the CC buoy doing some instruction in a CC Westerly. Said SO37 attempts to come alongside me. Comes in fast and skids sideways and gives me a little bump. Goes around again turning like a pig but manages to secure. I talk to the other skipper who had never sailed a Jeanneau before. As I owned one for several years we compare notes. Next morning as he leaves he shows me the turning cirlce with full wheel applied (about six boat lengths). We both agree something is seriously wrong. He goes back to Falmouth very carefully but broaches twice.
Speculation is rife, my feeling was that at least part of the keel had broken off or that steering movement was somehow restricted but at no point did anyone seriously consider that the whole bloody thing had gone. There was no internal sign of a keel strike - keel bolts and hull area looked fine.
Would you suspect a complete keel loss if a boat had sailed back from the Scillies and not capsized???? When alongside it didn't seem to be riding high either.
I am completely gobsmacked as are just about everyone else. How on earth did it stay upright?
Keel was found by divers in the Scillies as mentioned earlier.
 
I would also suspect that their memory lapse may also add to all future charter costs of all vessels because presumably there will now be a strong argument for a dive inspection upon return?[/QUOTE]

I've chartered boats in Skiathos and Marmaris this summer. On my return both boats were subject to a dive inspection. At the time I thought it was a little OTT but having read this thread I'd be minded to do my own on departure !

Not such a refreshing dip in the UK though !
 
OK, this is probably gonna wind some folks up....

Cornish Cruising has a real problem here.

The previous but 1 charterer reported they hit something... and the charter company then sent a yacht out that was clearly in a condition which was, for want of a better term, a death trap.

Whilst we all would agree that the thought that she would not have a keel is so far removed from reality, that no one would think to check... I cant help but feel that if this had resulted in a accident then Cornish Cruising would have been entirely at fault.

Some sort of a underwater inspection really needs to be made, especially if a customer reports that they have hit something.

The fact that a company has been able to charter out a boat with such a huge and potentially fatal defect, and that groundings and damage is not unusual on a charter boat, points to a failure in the systems of the company involved to ensure that the boats are safe and fit for purpose.

If there had been a accident Cornish Cruising would be stuffed in a court action.

I cant see anyway around the need for some sort of a underwater inspection between charters... even if just using a camera probe type thing.
 
photodog said:
OK, this is probably gonna wind some folks up....

Cornish Cruising has a real problem here....
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Actually, most of us who charter have a real problem. I think may really have to consider the video inspection routine. Does anyone have suggestions for effective but economic underwater cameras
 
Yes, it Gobsmacked me.
That's why I posted it.
Yes, its great that the boat stayed upright!
However, I posted what I thought was " An incredible event"
under the impression, that the keel had fallen off, between the Fal and the Helford.
I was just so pleased that the boat stayed upright, and no one got hurt, that I thought it was worth posting ALL OVER!

Now, as the facts unfold, I am #$$%^^$#$%^^.!


Happy Sailing
 
TiggerToo said:
Actually, most of us who charter have a real problem. I think may really have to consider the video inspection routine. Does anyone have suggestions for effective but economic underwater cameras
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I think it is likely to lead to larger deposits and a longer wait for their return.
 
OK , would it not be better/cheaper, just to use a diver ?
For an initial inspection ?
Should he / she notice anything suspicious, then ok lift the boat, do a quick asesment.
If something is radically wrong, then the boat is not going anywhere, anyway.

Those Hi Def,underwater cameras, are not cheap by any means.
Also you cannot deploy them without ,either some sort of expensive articulated underwater Gantry, or in the hands of a diver. Especially after or during turbulent weather, due to clarity of image, & silt etc, in the water.

Irrespective, all this comes to nothing, if a crew admit to hitting something, and NOBODY follows it up.

Jeez & they were on a " Get to know Sailing " weekend!

....?
 
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What i want to know is, How did the boat recover from the broaches with no keel? How much of the balast is carried internaly? Enough to counter the weight of the rig? I would i thurght a hull with high form stability would find it harder to recover from a broach than a traditional 'boat shaped' hull. Anyone know the answere?
 
heres the version from onboard the keel-less boat, Polbream... a very nice skipper takes 4 complete novices, three of whom had never been on a yacht before, and one who had not been on one for about 26 years...and only then as a child. Skipper goes through all safety sfuff...we check the bilges and keel bolts all appear perfectly normal to skipper...we wouldnt have known if they were normal or not, but all four bolts are in place (from bilge side) and feel secure - wont move. After a good discussion as to our experiences and expectations, we leave the pontoon....skipper comments that boat handles badly, but he never been on this type before, so nobody thought any more of it. We headed over to the helford to pick up a mooring....we had main sail and genoa fully out, I'm afraid I cant remember the wind direction or strength, but it was less than the next day (F5 gusting 6), not much happening wind wise, so we motor into the Helford, no spare moorings, so we raft up to another boat, who we have a 'little bump' with, skippers have a chat, we novices raise our eyebrows and question who we have come sailing with (jokingly)....we make our evening meal, have a discussion about charts and navigation and a generally nice evening. Following morning, we have breakfast, our skipper and one next door have a chat about leaving the mooring, we leave, skipper motors round in a circle to demonstrate the poor handling of the boat...discssion continues about possible net around keel or rudder, we all nod on in agreeable ignorance. We head back out into the bay and skipper hands over helm to me, others get sails up main and genoa, 2 reefs, wind F5 gusting 6, I have a go at tacking and gybing...boat handles like ****e....but had no comparison at time, although specifically recalled my live aboard mum explaining that these boats are like 'bathtubs', hence I see no concern...until we broach...other newbies looking on with somewhat more fear, but no-one really knows that this isnt normal other than the skipper, who presumably was keeping us from panicing by saying nothing, and going below to get his phone. My instincts were that this wasnt right, but having not sailed since I was about 10 (other than a stetch type 22 frigate, but clearly doesnt offer a comparison). My instincts from windsurfing (again as a child) were to let the sails out...but as the skipper didnt suggest this neither did I. So I sailed into the wind (again must have been some childhood remnant of windsurfing) and we righted. Another strong gust and over we go again...this time I have to let go of the helm with one hand in order to stay in th boat. turn into thewind and request skipper takes the helm...he says you are doing fine, keep going and goes below to use phone. He comes back up when only gets answerphone message from office, and says he will call mobile number. All the time, I want to get the hell off the water...or at least get the sails down so we do not broach again. Skipper comes up having got hold of boss and says we will go into pontoon, for investigation. We get sails down...AT LAST..and motor in, skipper takes helm to birth against fuelling pontoon. Not the easiest of birthings, so he asks for working boat to take us to birth...working boat ties up to us and attempts to get us to birth. Skipper of working boat says he's struggling to manouver us, but after a few scrapes we get into birth. Some other guy come over and says 'shes not sitting right in the water' and skipper rom working boat walks round to pontoon behind us and says 'shes about 2 foot too high in the water'. Owner of CC comes to boat and suggests its a rudder problem. Our skipper says he thinks it more than that, a camera is rigged up to have a look, but battery flat...off it goes to be charged. 30 mins later it comes back but is not working. We are offered another boat to go out on, and decide to do this but keep all our provisions onboard Polbream and sleep there rather than waste more time moving everything. I personally felt that if I hadnt got out onto the water when we did, I probably never would have gone out again...get back on before you have time to think too much. So off we go, this time on a benetau oceanis clipper 331. Comparatively speaking, she handles like a dream, and my fears tha my helmsmanship isnt 'completely **** and causing us to broach' are somewhat alleviated. We have a great day, spend the night on Polbream, and next morning go out on oceanis again. We arrive back and find Polbream in slings...completely keel-less. I have to admit I was somewhat relieved that there was a problem, and it wasnt just my driving lol
 
As the skipper of the other boat in the Helford (as previously posted) I must reiterate my feelings about this. Its easy to use hindsight to say that the skipper of the Jeanneau and CC should have been more proactive. BUT would anyone with any experience really expect a modern yacht with no keel to sail back from the Scilies without capsizing? I've been at it for fourty years and can't think of a precedent but know of seveal instances where the boat has fallen over straight away. So I would not have suspected the truth because as far as I'm concerned it is still bloody impossible! In fact the last skipper and CC probably did the best anyone could under the circumstances and as soon as they realised there was something seriously wrong they investigated it.

Anyone for Angles of Vanishing Stability?????????
 
HoratioHB said:
As the skipper of the other boat in the Helford (as previously posted) I must reiterate my feelings about this. Its easy to use hindsight to say that the skipper of the Jeanneau and CC should have been more proactive. BUT would anyone with any experience really expect a modern yacht with no keel to sail back from the Scilies without capsizing? I've been at it for fourty years and can't think of a precedent but know of seveal instances where the boat has fallen over straight away. So I would not have suspected the truth because as far as I'm concerned it is still bloody impossible! In fact the last skipper and CC probably did the best anyone could under the circumstances and as soon as they realised there was something seriously wrong they investigated it.

Anyone for Angles of Vanishing Stability?????????
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I am certainly not suggesting that the skipper we had did anything wrong...in fact we couldnt have asked for a better guy, he was superb. If CC knew nothing of the previous charter hitting something, then they too cannot be responsible for the poor levels of responsibility by the previous charter. Hopefully this previous lot was a bareboat charter, and therefore CC has nothing to concern themselves with, in my opinion. However, some serious questions ought to be asked of the skipper who 'did not own up' and put the lives of others at risk. I believe that our skipper did an excellent job of managing to get us all 'home and dry' and also pursing the seriousness of his concerns with CC, and then managing to get us all back out onto the water and have a thoroughly enjoyable weekend. I hope that everyone reading this is clear that I am NOT suggesting any lack of competence or diligence on behalf of our skipper. He did a fantastic job.
 
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