Cornish Crabber performance seaworthiness

[andyasj]

I am considering purchasing a Cornish Crabber MkI or MkII.
Has anyone got any comments regarding their performance, especially to windward, and their seaworthiness. Most of my sailing would be coastal but I enjoy occasional trips from S. Wales to Ireland (only about 80 miles but short steep seas are quite common). I suspect the bluff bows would find waves a bit difficult, especially to windward.
The large open cockpit is also an attraction and a worry. I know she is not designed for open sea work but nevertheless I would appreciate comments from experience.
Cheers, Andy

 

[NealB]

I know James Hatfield...

... sailed one round the world single-handed, to raise money for the British Heart Foundation.

If I recall correctly, she sank somewhere off Cape Town after hitting something in the water.

James is a very knowledgeable and experienced sailor, who went on to skipper 'Time and Tide' in one of Chay Blyth's Global Challenge races.

Sorry, but that's the limit of my Crabber knowledge.

 

[FWB]

I owned a Crabber MkI for many years. I loved the boat very much. Windward performance is not great on the MkI---I imagine, but dont know, that it's better on the MkII which has a slightly larger rig.
The Jackyard Topsail improved her sailing abilities a lot.
I found the boat very seaworthy and loved the large cockpit.
The MkI looks nicer than the MkII since it has more wood. Beware that the wooden deck is prone to going soft due leaks, but if you can get a good one you will find it more pleasing than the all plastic MkII.
The MkII has running backstays. These are not a problem and you will soon get used to them.
They are quite small boats and the location of the loo under the V berth is a pain.
I sold mine to a young fisherman who took her to France and Ireland.
When I had my present Gaffer built---a Heard 28-- I had it made just like the Crabber only bigger.
Hope this is of use.

 

[William_H]

There is myth that old style boats aree very sea worthy and modern sail boats are not as good as the old style.
I am here to argue the opposite. I reckon it is just that old style boating was more acceptable of loss of life. (and maintenance labourt was cheap)

A self draining cockpit has got to be safer than a cockpit that drains into the bilge. Baring breaching the hull if the hatch is closed it cannot be swamped and sunk.

A marconi type main sail with aluminium mast has got to be better than a gaff rig with far less weight up top so better self righting moment. And more efficient to windward.
A fin keel is far more efficient to windward than a long keel. You would really appreciate good windward performance if you were trapped in a gale on a lee shore. Yes a long keel will self steer but we have autopilots now and even hand steering is not so hard.

Fibreglass is a material that stands up to long years with neglect a wooden boat has a finite life without major maintenance. (especially bad when neglected and fresh water gets in to cause rot.

A good performance boat ie a racer can be very easily sailed conservatively to make a really nice easy boat to sail. Yes a light boat can give a lively motion but then if you load it up with water and provisions and equipment it won't be light anyway.

There is a very good reason why the AWB (average white boat) is so popular and that is because they are so good.

You would only buy a historical or old style boat if the difficulties of sailing and maintaining them is the attraction. I am not knocking the romance and beauty of an old wooden boat but don't imagine they a re easy to sail or own. olewill waits for shouts of derision.

 

[FWB]

It depends upon if you want a boat or a caravan. Getting back to Cornish Crabbers. They have GRP hulls and apart from varnished spars no more maintenance than an AWB.They also have self draining cockpits.Gaff rig is less likely to fail than a marconi rig and gaffers tend to sail more upright.
.
Here is my maintenance free gaffer, GRP hull and teak with varnished spars. She is fast, seaworthy and sails 30deg to the apparent wind.
She is also pleasing on the eye.

 

[john_morris_uk]

[ QUOTE ]
Gaff rig is less likely to fail than a marconi rig and gaffers tend to sail more upright.

[/ QUOTE ] Might I humbly suggest that your defence of the Cornish Crabber (and like boats) is let down by this sweeping statement. After all, modern 'Marconi' rigs are so unreliable that I can't remember any round the world or blue water sailors using them...

 

[FWB]

The marconi rig is under great tension, the gaff rig isnt. I feel that gaff rig is not as fragile as the marconi. Just my opinion.

 

[Dougie_the_Mate]

She is pretty though.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[William_H]

High Dylan I have to appolgise for the seeping statements about the Cornish Crabber when I have very little idea what it is like.
Yes a pretty little boat. No you will never convice me on gaff rig. I am just afrad of all that weight hanging on a halyard and the difficulty of getting enough luff tension. anyway good luck and happy sailing.
olewill

 

[FWB]

[ QUOTE ]
No you will never convince me on gaff rig. I am just afraid of all that weight hanging on a halyard and the difficulty of getting enough luff tension.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, I think you need to go out on a gaffer. The Gaff hangs on 2 'halyards' and the luff is as tight and as easy to set up as on any other rig.
Regards.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Dylan,

Its always good to see the certainty of a true convert, but I still think you should be slightly more open minded. I actually like gaff rigs - not enough to own one, but I do see their advantages AND their disadvantages.

Also you can't have your cake and eat it. In one post you say the loads are less on the gaff rig, and in another you say that you can set up the luff tension just as easily as on a Marconi.

Standing rig tensions may be less on a gaffer because of shorter masts and geometry, but safety is a matter of design and if my Marconi rig is designed correctly it will be JUST AS SAFE. Actually the rig tension and mast compression to heel the boat to a given no. of degrees (assuming identical hulls and ballast etc) is exactly the SAME regardless of what rig is causing the heeling.

Your argument makes as much sense as me claiming that my boat is much safer because I can point higher with my rig. It might be true that my boat will point higher, but safety is much more than an ability to point.

Lots of people don't like sailing with large heavy gaffs swinging about above their heads.

The last serious gaffer I sailed was over a hundred foot and the gaff weighed several tonnes. No mechanical winches - it was muscle that set the rig.

 

[FWB]

I am completely open minded. I have no problem with marconi rigs, I have had several. I am not a convert, I have a gaffer and I like it. The gaff is not heavy, the tension in the standing rigging is less than in a marconi but who cares?
This was a post about someones desire to buy a Cornish Crabber. I hope he finds a nice one and enjoys it.
Marconi Shmarconi, as long as we enjoy our sailing it doesnt matter.