Coppercoat - Pros & Cons

[Little Dorrit]

I'm in the process of considering this midway through the season.

I just wondered if anyone (other than the cost and work involved) has any other suggestions on the process and the for and against views on this?

 

[MagicalArmchair]

I'm a great fan, seems to work well on the east coast when sailing from a marina. Ewan and the gang are very helpful and answered my million questions. Its a very easy DIY to apply (I couldn't comment on removal of antifouling, I applied coppercoat over coppercoat (well north of ten years old)) which is very easy.

http://www.albinballad.co.uk/technology/coppercoat/

 

[Champagne Murphy]

BUT marina boats have less fouling than those in a tideway. Coppercoat seems to be less effective in those situations. Also, at least for the first time , it's probably a good idea to have the hull soda blasted first (or similar) to get the nice smooth finish. I've priced it up before and the cost seems similar to the 10 year cost of conventional antifoul, where you perhaps save is not needing to do a fairly grotty job every year.

 

[pvb]

I've priced it up before and the cost seems similar to the 10 year cost of conventional antifoul, where you perhaps save is not needing to do a fairly grotty job every year.

If you've still got to lift the boat annually (either for winter storage in you're on a swinging mooring, or to check anodes, etc), it's likely to be pressure-washed on lifting, and then it's relatively easy to apply antifouling. The upfront cost of Coppercoat is a fair chunk of money.

 

[RichardS]

If you do a forum search for Coppercoat you will find some extremely long discussions about the pros and cons.

I was swayed by the pros and am now "Coated" and pleased with the result. The main convincer for me was that I am in the warm Med so can easily take a scrubbing brush and bring my CC back to new again after an hour or two swimming around.

Richard

 

[Tranona]

There is no simple answer. First you have to accept it is going to be effective over the suggested time span, although as time goes by the weight of evidence tends to support this. There is little evidence however that is significantly better at reducing fouling, just easier to clean.

Next you have to consider how long you are going to keep the boat as it is a cost that adds little to resale value. Then the cost varies substantially ranging from the basic material cost and DIY at around £600-1000 depending on size of boat to £3-4000 to have it done professionally - more if there is a lot of preparation on an existing hull.

The real saving comes in not having to take the boat out for a period of time each year (or two) to prepare and recoat. This is both cost of materials and DIY or paid labour. This cost (and hassle) can be substantial, but if you expect to lay your boat up each winter, not a big deal.

However, if you are like me where the boat stays in the water all year round, and a lift and clean is £75 then it starts to make sense, even with the cost of professional application - provided you intend to keep the boat for some years.

So, I had my boat done from new as I expect to keep it for at least 5 years and I save approx £350 plus materials each year over haul out, cradle hire, storage. Plus, being in my 8th decade no more crawling underneath in the cold and wet slapping on noxious chemicals!

 

[drakes drum]

Over the 6 years that I have had it I have found that its about as effective as ordinary antifoul, no better but no worse.

As for the costs issue, like all costings at work its a matter of what assumptions you throw into the equation. What value do you put on your time for example, what interest rate do you use if you are anal enough to do a dcf calculation, how often do you have to take trad antifoul back to the bare hull, how long are you going to keep the boat etc etc. And of course , its an issue of whether the cost is significant to you or petty cash. And finally, how much you dislike the PITA job of applying antifoul in crap spring weather.

All I can say is that if I bought another boat, I would again use copper coat. On all the boat that is except maybe the lead keel where its difficult to get any paint to stick including copper coat.

 

[TrailerSailer]

I'm into the 8th year of being "coated". Generally I am pleased with the result. I have left it 2 years between lifts and it is normally just slime that is easily pressure washed off at the end of that period. Barnacles do not like it at all (although they love the saildrive which is not coated).
I have had it on swinging moorings as well as marina. Not noticed any difference with the exception ofmore growth on one side on the mooring.
This winter I have lightly abraded it as last year there was considerable growth on the hull - but it easily brushed off. Hoping it will go through for the full 10 years - in which case it pays for itself. The other benefit is that it leaves another layer of epoxy on the hull giving additional protection from the possibility of osmosis (not that I think that is a problem with most recent hulls).
I will certainly have it redone in a couple of years, but this time I'd take it up further above the waterline as a "boot-top". Mine stops at the waterline and I do get a lot of growth in the couple of inches which are splashed by water.

 

[srm]

A search will show many threads on this theme.
For what it is worth I bought my current boat in 2009, ashore in Plymouth. Survey reported minimal moisture content as had been ashore every winter for 14 years and the previous 2 years. Had hull soda blasted, then used orbital sander to remove remains of thin coat of original epoxy that was breaking up.
Tented the hull and applied three coats of high build epoxy followed by a full day of coppercoating - try to get an extra person to help if doing it yourself.
Maintenance has been pressure washing between tides each spring on the slip in Stromness Marina, until 2014. Would get some green around waterline and bottom of keel where direct sunlight reached, otherwise slime. One year some pin head barnacles that came off easily with pressure washer or thumb nail.
2014 sailed to Azores. Gave a scrub as best I could from pontoon and dinghy spring 2015. Took boat ashore for first time in Sept 2015 and there was just a thin slime to wash off (less than in Orkney). By contrast the bronze prop looked like a coral reef and took almost as much time as the hull to clean. (Speed had been down and fuel consumption up)
OK initially it is expensive to prep and apply but from then on very little maintenance needed. Pressure washer was convenient but hand scrubbing with a stiff brush or ss pan scorer would have same effect (spring 2015).
For me it was worth it, even after only 6 years or so. Coating is still working and looks good.
It realy depends on where and how you maintain your boat's hull and how much you enjoy applying antifouling - after nearly 30 years of DIY boat owning I was happy to do the job thoroughly just once and leave it for a number of years.

 

[sailaboutvic]

So here we are , three year on and the first time out of the water since we copper coat the boat.
A thin layer of slim and that's about it .
We lost a small part off the keel where we treated it for rust , but I guess not well enough , so we will be doing that again and touch up the copper as well as one new thought hull fitting and a new prop seal on the sail drive .

 

[RichardS]

So here we are , three year on and the first time out of the water since we copper coat the boat.
A thin layer of slim and that's about it .
We lost a small part off the keel where we treated it for rust , but I guess not well enough , so we will be doing that again and touch up the copper as well as one new thought hull fitting and a new prop seal on the sail drive .

You did better than us Vic. Our first time out for 18 months a couple of weeks ago and as well as the slime which power-washed off we had about a 100 barnacles plus a lot of worm casts which would not. I had to scrape the barnacles off by hand but most of them left their while chalk base behind. Removing these bases took a lot of scraping - a whole days work in fact.

Barnacles:

Bases after removal:

I'm still pleased that I had the CC applied but it's certainly not a labour-free solution, although a days scraping is a lot less work than the application of conventional antifoul every couple of years.

Richard

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Who needs a gym membership when you can spend a day scrubbing barnacles feet off?? Did you burnish the CC once you have applied it Richard? After we applied it, we had disastrous results... until we burnished it with a red scotchbrite - since then its been epic!

 

[sailaboutvic]

You did better than us Vic. Our first time out for 18 months a couple of weeks ago and as well as the slime which power-washed off we had about a 100 barnacles plus a lot of worm casts which would not. I had to scrape the barnacles off by hand but most of them left their while chalk base behind. Removing these bases took a lot of scraping - a whole days work in fact.

Barnacles:

Bases after removal:

I'm still pleased that I had the CC applied but it's certainly not a labour-free solution, although a days scraping is a lot less work than the application of conventional antifoul every couple of years.

Richard

Yes Richard , we rally please with it , if it wasn't for the prop seal we wounldnt had come out . The bits of rush around the keel could had waited .
I have to say , we do clean the slime off now and then , so it not 100% work free . But then what is .

 

[Sandmartin]

I copperbotted my boat in 2004, it has worked realy well with no problems and no real maintenance requirements until this years lift. Unfortunatly it is getting near the end of its life. In a number of areas it had now bubbled and had 'in effect' an osmosis style problem between copperbot and gelcoat. In the last 12 years lifts have only been short and at 3 year plus intervals, as we have been touring Europe and many overwinter moorings did not have lift capability. On survey this year (required by by insurace) her 40 year old hull is solid with no osmisis, so the copperbot has protected. I have just just spent 5 days sanding the hull and have put normal anti-foul on as I do not know how long we will still be together due to age. Not the boat, she is only 40, it is me that is getting old. No regrets on copperbot, from performace and ecconomy I would give it very good marks and recommend it as well worthwhile.

 

[thesaintlyone]

Three Thougts On This..!!!

1) Sailing Uma did Copper Bottom on their low budget well worth a look at the video on youtube.

2) Speaking to a guy at the Boatyard he swears by a Black Anti-Foul bottom claims it gets less fouling than other boats moored nearby

3) HMS Victory apparently had copper bottom along with the rest of the fleet at Trafalgar

Regards

 

[sailorman]

Three Thougts On This..!!!

1) Sailing Uma did Copper Bottom on their low budget well worth a look at the video on youtube.

2) Speaking to a guy at the Boatyard he swears by a Black Anti-Foul bottom claims it gets less fouling than other boats moored nearby

3) HMS Victory apparently had copper bottom along with the rest of the fleet at Trafalgar

Regards

To deter torrado worm in tropical waters

 

[RichardS]

Did you burnish the CC once you have applied it Richard? After we applied it, we had disastrous results... until we burnished it with a red scotchbrite - since then its been epic!

We didn't abrade it after it was first applied as you're not supposed to do that ...... and this month was its first time out since Coppercoating. However, it is now extremely well abraded as I used a scraper and then pan scourer over every inch to get the barnacles and worm casts off.

I certainly hope that mine is as good as yours and Vic's now.

Richard

 

[Koeketiene]

We're in our 7th year.
Overall, I feel it's as good as (no better - no worse) than conventional antifouling.
The first two years, we just had some slime which came of easily.
Over the following years, we had progressively more and more growth
These last two years, the growth was significant.
The main plus for us is the amount of time saved and not having to scrape and re-apply antifoul every year.
We get by with a cheap lift/hold/drop once a year - a quick pressurewash and just sufficient to change the annodes and grease the prop.
FWIW: our boat lives on a swinging mooring seven months of the year.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We applied copper coat for two reason ,
First to save the the cost of being lifted out each year and the work and cost involve in cleaning and antifouling and as full time live-aboard living on the hard isn't any fun , just an accident waiting to happen climbing up and down ladders .
Secondly , we finding more and more marinas are now trying to stop people working on their boat and the cost of letting them do the job is rocketing , It nothing to hear people are paying well over 1000 Euros for a haul and a paint job .
At that rate ours paid for it self in the first year .

I would say copper coating is a lot better then any antifouling I every used , no way would our boat come out as clean as it did after three years in the water , with any paint we used in the passed .
After saying all that , as I said we have had to clean off slime at less once a year if not twice and I guess if we didn't then we may have found more fouling .
If we manage another three year without coming out , we be happy .
We know people who haven't had the result we had , and some that have said their have fell off , I can't explain why has we all sailing in the Med , the only thing I can think of is that hasn't been applied right .

 

[Babylon]

Mine was done last summer then relaunched in August. Spent winter in the water (Hamble mooring), then dried out a week or so ago for one tide and simply pressure-hosed it in less than an hour back to perfection. Polishing the prop, slipping on a new anode and re-greasing the feathering gears took another hour. Hull anodes still good, and Blakes through-hulls nipple-greased, so simply floated off later the same day.



Can't comment on its long-term viability, except to say that over this first winter fouling was less severe than previous painted antifoul would have been in same place over same period, slimy rather than weedy.

My rationale for going down this route was ease of dealing with underwater areas - which is great! - rather than some cost-benefit analysis, although it will pay for itself over a long enough period of time.

I still intend to haul ashore at least every other winter, but can easily scrub mid-season without worrying about scraping, priming and painting!

The only caution is that some people I know have had issues with metal keels (my long-keel lead is fully encapsulated), but this might be something to do with inadequate epoxy barrier between the keel and the coppercoat?