Coolant Question

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mark1882

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Hi
I have a Volvo Penta 2003T engine on my boat
I know that you are not supposed to mix different types of coolant
I have always used Volvo Penta pre-mixed coolant, the green one, in my cooling system and now need to top it up having just replaced a couple of seals which involved losing about a litre of the coolant. I only replaced the coolant about 3 months ago so don't want to lose it all if I can help it.
The coolant I now have on-board is still Volvo Penta, the green one but the concentrated version. Am I right to assume that as long as I dilute it according to the instructions it is ok to combine the Volvo Penta pre-mixed green coolant with the Volvo Penta concentrated version of the green coolant.
I know this might sound a daft question but I would just like to be sure that it is ok.
Any advice would be welcome
Thanks
Mark
 
NEVER softened water!! That would be an horrendous mistake, since softened water contains significant amounts of salt. The condemning limit for chloride is only 25 ppm in glycol engine coolants. And freezer ice is obviously just tap water, also a no-no.

Only DI or distilled water, same as a battery. This is in the ASTM spec.

----

Sorry to yell, but that could be a very serious error. I'm on the committee, so the subject is near to my heart.
 
thinwater said:
NEVER softened water!! That would be an horrendous mistake, since softened water contains significant amounts of salt. The condemning limit for chloride is only 25 ppm in glycol engine coolants. And freezer ice is obviously just tap water, also a no-no.

Only DI or distilled water, same as a battery. This is in the ASTM spec.

----

Sorry to yell, but that could be a very serious error. I'm on the committee, so the subject is near to my heart.
Click to expand...

I'm also sorry but you are completely wrong. Softened water only contains extremely soluble salts, mainly sodium carbonate. This will not cause any build up in a coolant system ...... ever. If your softened water contains any common salt whatsoever then using it to dilute antifreeze is the least of your problems. :(

Melted freezer ice is water condensate which has been frozen and is the same as distilled water.

I'm not sure which committee you are on, but it sounds like it could do with a professional chemist on board. I'm retired and available. :)

Richard
 
thinwater said:
NEVER softened water!! That would be an horrendous mistake, since softened water contains significant amounts of salt. The condemning limit for chloride is only 25 ppm in glycol engine coolants. And freezer ice is obviously just tap water, also a no-no.

Only DI or distilled water, same as a battery. This is in the ASTM spec.

----

Sorry to yell, but that could be a very serious error. I'm on the committee, so the subject is near to my heart.
Click to expand...

RichardS said:
I'm also sorry but you are completely wrong. Softened water only contains extremely soluble salts, mainly sodium carbonate. This will not cause any build up in a coolant system ...... ever. If your softened water contains any common salt whatsoever then using it to dilute antifreeze is the least of your problems. :(

Melted freezer ice is water condensate which has been frozen and is the same as distilled water.

I'm not sure which committee you are on, but it sounds like it could do with a professional chemist on board. I'm retired and available. :)

Richard
Click to expand...

The ASTM spec reads

ASTM D4985:
Total solid particles* ...................................... < 340 ppm
Total hardness: ............................................ < 9.5° dH
Chloride......................................................... < 40 ppm
Sulfate ........................................................... < 100 ppm
pH value........................................................ 5,5–9
Silica (acc. ASTM D859).............................. < 20 mg SiO2/l
Iron (acc. ASTM D1068).............................. < 0.10 ppm
Manganese (acc. ASTM D858)................... < 0.05 ppm
Conductivity (acc. ASTM D1125)................ < 500 µS/cm
Organic content, CODMn (acc. ISO8467).... < 15 mg KMnO4/l

( * but I guess that should read total dissolved solids ???)
( 9.5° dH = 170 ppm Ca CO3 )

Softened water will contain the same chloride, sulphate etc concentrations as the untreated water ( assuming a modern base exchange softening process) All that will be changed is that the Ca and Mg will be replaced by Na .
The removal of the Ca and Mg is what makes it soft. It will lather readily with soap and will no longer form a calcium carbonate scale when heated.
 
Properly operated, you are correct, chloride would generally be 5-15 ppm in addition to any background chloride, depending on the beginning hardness. However, I have seen samples in the lab in the low hundreds. There are 2 reasons:
* Improper operation
* Brackish well water, which is high in both carbonate and chloride.
* The coolant generally contains 4-10 ppm background concentration, the result of sodium-based additives with chloride contamination.

It turns out that in the area where I sail, the later is quite common, the result of infiltration. Since you cannot easily be certain, a prudent person would not take the risk.

I did not understand that you meant frost in the freezer. My freezer (home or boat) does not frost, so I forgot. Yup, that's obviously distilled.

Is the issue as serious for marine engines as to vehicle engines? I doubt it. But it is not for nothing that Yanmar recommends change the coolant every year, in spite of the fact that the coolant is rated for 5 years in vehicle service. They honor the 5-year interval in their stationary engines. It is concern over seawater contamination that is different. Chloride is a non-threshold initiator of cracking in copper and aluminum components, the seriousness of which depends on the alloys. I'm sure cars are different, but the annual change requirement would make be believe there are some sensitive alloys in the freshwater cooled version.

I did not aim to insult and I am sorry you took it that way. ASTM D15 for 15 years. The specifications are in the appendix to D3306, upon which most global standards are based, including UK standards (I believe the UK committee has effectively merged with D15 about 5 years ago as I recall). I know the business very well.
 
Actually, that is the requirement for the finished coolant.

section 4.3.

"Pre-dilute coolants shall be prepared using deionized water that meets...
25ppm chloride.

Carbonate is bad, but in freshwater systems, chloride is just as bad with the same low limit.

Google chloride+engine+coolant and you will find plenty.

Believe what you like.
 
Ilduceglider said:
Is the water produced from a dehumidifier or air conditioner suitable?

Cheers Peter
Click to expand...

Yes .... both those are effectively distilled water. However there may be a small amount of particulate matter so it should ideally be filtered before use though a funnel lined with a piece of kitchen roll. However, if it looks clear then its clear enough. Engine coolant is not a demanding environment and around the world people are using tap water, river water, rain water and I've even heard of urine being used in Landys when I lived in Africa ..... and those vehicles are regularly doing more than 1/4 million miles in daily tropical heat . :)

Richard
 
thinwater said:
I did not aim to insult and I am sorry you took it that way.
Click to expand...

No insult taken so no apology needed, hence the smiley. :)

There a lot of preciousness around about the water to be used in cooling systems and batteries but they are both extremely tolerant systems. You would be amazed what I've seen used in both over the last 50 years with very little adverse effect.

Richard
 
RichardS said:
No insult taken so no apology needed, hence the smiley. :)

There a lot of preciousness around about the water to be used in cooling systems and batteries but they are both extremely tolerant systems. You would be amazed what I've seen used in both over the last 50 years with very little adverse effect.

Richard
Click to expand...

So true. And yet I've seen some disasters. One brilliant truck manufacture decided to run a coolant line through the DEF tank (diesel exhaust fluid--basically urea in water) to prevent crystallization in the winter. The lines leaked, urea got in the coolant, turned into ammonia, and really trashed things.

Sorry.:)
 
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