Converting bolt main - big job?

[SiteSurfer]

My main is bolt rope type and I'd quite like to convert it to runners to make it a simple job for us to hoist the main when learning, a couple small things I'd like to check before leaping in.

1. Assume that its a simple case of sail maker adding the runners retrospectively
2. The mast groove/channel is not changed in any way other than a slide stopper to stop them all coming out again
3. Sheets and Halyards wouldn't change (can see no reason to)

Oo

 

[lw395]

Provided the slugs that fit your mast are strong enough, it should be no real problem.
They may not go through the current feeder?
The feeder may be too high to store the main with the slides in?
I had a main converted to flat slides with no issues, except I ended up changing the plastic shackles the sailmaker used for lashings after a while.
You may need a new headboard if there are no slots/holes?
My sailmaker added a layer of reinforcement at each slide, plus an eyelet.

 

[SiteSurfer]

Right, a bit more involved than at first thought then, ok no worries - thanks.

 

[JimC]

... I ended up changing the plastic shackles the sailmaker used for lashings after a while ...

Might I ask why you did this? I made the opposite change and found it made the sail come down all the way when the halyard was released rather than me having to go to the mast and pull the last 1/3 to 1/2 down. The slides slid down more freely with the nylon shackles attaching them to the sail. From observation I believe this is due to their having more freedom to stay aligned with the mast groove as the sail concertinas than was the case with the tape bindings.

 

[SiteSurfer]

Ok. Taking above points on board - looks like Holt do the bits, a plastic shackle (screwed on) to a plastic slider (various sizes for the slot) and then either wallop them straight to the main behind the bolt rope or inert small cringles/eyelets spaced evenly.

Then insert a mast slide stopper. Looks achievable.

My slot opening doesn't look too high, oddly it appears to have a pin through it....

 

[ghostlymoron]

When I did this on my 17 footer, I hammered in some brass eyelets just behind the bolt rope then used small plastic slugs fixed on with plastic shackles. No sail maker involved.
I was lucky that my head plate didn't need modifying. Tricky part was working out where the eyelets should go avoiding battens etc. I think I put them about 300mm apart ish.
It would be more complicated with a larger sail (which yours appears to be) but shouldn't need any reinforcement.

 

[Spuddy]

Find the right sliders and then see what length plastic shackles needed to link up to behind bolt rope. I used stainless eyes and needed a special whacker. Or could lash them with string or sew webbing.
Most gnarly bit was bodging up a mast gate and also need a bit of thinking as to how it might affect reefing.
After twas all done dropping the main was so much easier, especially with a stack pack as I'm usually single handed.
As ghostlymoron says, no reinforcement needed

 

[wilkinsonsails]

Very easy to convert ,if you have an eyelet kit,and shackles and sliders.
Flake the sail with the tack eye central on the flake and the eye position is in the middle of the folds.Adjust to clear the reef cringle eye if it's to close its difficult to get the reef cringle down to the boom.
Bear in mind that the sail will sit back from the original luff line and it will need a longer tack shackle or a lashing to let it do so.
If you can get webbing that fits through the sliders ,you can hand sew these through the slide and dispense with th eyelet kit too.
Cindy

 

[SiteSurfer]

Thanks all, all advice gratefully recieved. Its a prioroity to do this - I can't envisage having anything on the boat which couldnt be achieved easly single handed (at least until the crew grows a bit of confidence).

 

[savageseadog]

If you use eyelets, make sure they are really brass or preferably stainless steel rather than plated steel, other advice pretty spot on.

 

[lw395]

Might I ask why you did this? I made the opposite change and found it made the sail come down all the way when the halyard was released rather than me having to go to the mast and pull the last 1/3 to 1/2 down. The slides slid down more freely with the nylon shackles attaching them to the sail. From observation I believe this is due to their having more freedom to stay aligned with the mast groove as the sail concertinas than was the case with the tape bindings.

A number of the plastic shackles broke.
I think the twisting action on them when the sail was flaked might have been the problem.
Or maybe when reefed?
Tight tape bindings might be worse, as you observed.
It was quite a heavy sail on a 39ft boat.

 

[SiteSurfer]

Well.. I may have spoken too soon - the dinghy sailor in me may have mistakenly assumed that the sail I pulled out of the bag was the main after seeing a bolt rope on it. Theres a fighting chance that its the flipping furling genoa... Now for a tense week until I actually find out for sure. I didnt check the other bag as I had thought it was the other way around - what a plonker Rodney.

 

[William_H]

Just to be contrary to everyone else I have had a bolt rope in the mast slot for 35 years over 4 different mainsails. I do have a guide to help the bolt rope go in easier. I can pull it down single handed but usually have a crew. The bolt rope makes reefing a lot simpler .
Incidentally bolt rope or slugs you need a stout metal slug at the top if you do reef. There is quite a lot of force trying to pull the slug out when it is part way down the track and does not have the halyard to help hold it into the mast. So a bolt rope or soft slug can get partly pulled out of the track resulting in a jambed main sail. good luck with the new boat olewill

 

[SiteSurfer]

Thanks OleWill, having always had a bolt rope main on dinghies, i know what its like to have half a ton of wet horrible main flapping around in the boat - was hoping to avoid that at all costs on the new toy

 

[Greenheart]

(14th April 2019)

Tricky part was working out where the eyelets should go avoiding battens etc. I think I put them about 300mm apart ish.

Why did the position of the battens affect the positions of the eyelets? Did your mainsail have full-length battens?

Was 300mm between sliders a careful calculation, or might more (or fewer) be better?

I'm sick of feeding the bolt-rope into the track. I love the idea of the sail dropping easily under gravity with a bit of encouragement, into the lazyjacks. But I can't really tell which of Allen's slides will fit best...presumably the example farthest left, here...

...but I don't know how many to order for a 20ft luff. And unless breakage is vanishingly rare, I should presumably order spares.

Do the sliders need a bit of silicone spray to make them really mobile?

 

[VicS]

(14th April 2019)



Why did the position of the battens affect the positions of the eyelets? Did your mainsail have full-length battens?

Was 300mm between sliders a careful calculation, or might more (or fewer) be better?

I'm sick of feeding the bolt-rope into the track. I love the idea of the sail dropping easily under gravity with a bit of encouragement, into the lazyjacks. But I can't really tell which of Allen's slides will fit best...presumably the example farthest left, here...



...but I don't know how many to order for a 20ft luff. And unless breakage is vanishingly rare, I should presumably order spares.

Do the sliders need a bit of silicone spray to make them really mobile?

There are also 2 or 3 sizes of slug of this pattern, only 3mm thick which will fit the narrowest of slots and may be more suitable for a mast originally intended to have a sail with a bolt rope

See https://www.allenbrothers.co.uk/range/?pid=cjlf6lozh001gd1v4dd1l21lf&cid=cjlf6kjph000bc3v4ij25e02s for the full range of Allen sail slugs and slides with their dimensions

 

[ghostlymoron]

TBH I can't remember why I chose the 300mm spacing. Probably by looking at other boats. I was quite happy with it though and it transformed sail handling. I also fitted slab reefing. One problem was the slot on the mast was quite narrow and I had to file the slugs down to fit. Your boat looks much bigger than mine so everything will need to be that much stronger.
I put a description in PBO magazine about in and got 50 quid.?

(14th April 2019)



Why did the position of the battens affect the positions of the eyelets? Did your mainsail have full-length battens?

Was 300mm between sliders a careful calculation, or might more (or fewer) be better?

I'm sick of feeding the bolt-rope into the track. I love the idea of the sail dropping easily under gravity with a bit of encouragement, into the lazyjacks. But I can't really tell which of Allen's slides will fit best...presumably the example farthest left, here...

...but I don't know how many to order for a 20ft luff. And unless breakage is vanishingly rare, I should presumably order spares.

Do the sliders need a bit of silicone spray to make them really mobile?

 

[wombat88]

If the slugs/sliders are to drop down below what is now a bolt rope feeder then a certain amount of creative Diy-ing may be needed to fabricate a mast gate.

The sail may also stack higher (though neater) up the mast which might mean revisions to your sail cover.

I used slugs/sliders with a round profile, plastic shackles and yes, to start with, silicone spray.

Next...diy lazyjacks hung round the spreaders!

 

[Greenheart]

Vic, Ghostly, Wombat, thanks for your helpful replies. :encouragement:

Your boat looks much bigger than mine so everything will need to be that much stronger.

Well, a few inches longer......did you perhaps confuse me with an earlier poster here?

The Osprey's lazyjacks were amongst my earliest additions. But to get the mainsail to flake upon the boom as seen below, requires a minute of two's careful dedicated attention, difficult at sea, as the sail on the bolt-rope simply pours out of the mast-track like toothpaste from a squashed tube; and of course it cannot be hoisted again without even more careful attendance at the mast...

As you say Wombat, I will need to put a pin across the mast-track above the opening to stop the sliders flowing out.

Thanks for that Allen table of measurements Vic - time to visit the boat and measure the mast-track. Those breaking strains suggest even the smallest is ample so I hope I need order only sufficient for one per 12" of bolt-rope.

 

[wombat88]

Your Osprey boom looks about the same as the one on the Jag 21. About 2.3m from memory?

The other thing that has helped sail handling singled handed is full width battens. I have no idea what difference if any they make to performance.

Indeed, talking about performance and not ease of handling I guess that moving from tidy bolt rope to slugs/sliders is a backward step.