convert to a self-draining cockpit or not ?

[sarabande]

I have to make a decision on the refurbishment of my little 24ft plywood cruiser.

She's a YW People's Boat, and the original design is for a cockpit whse floor is nearly above the waterline, but with no pretence at dealing with incoming waves and rain, other than let the water go through the cockpit sole into the bilge - there to be dealt with by an electric and/or a manual pump.

To insert a sort of brick-shaped bathtub in glassed ply would be relatively easy and relatively cheap, with the addition of a couple of drains and through-hull fittings.

However, it would raise the cockpit sole by about two inches, which might be ergonomically unsatisfactory - but provide some much needed storage below it.

Has anyone come across an elegant solution to the problem please ? I know a s/drainer is much 'safer' especially at a mooring in heavy rain, and at sea, but are there any arguments for retaining the present setup, please ?


TIA

 

[knuterikt]

A self draining cockpit have as you said many advantages.

The only drawback is that the cockpit can give to little shelter.

Make sure that the cockpit floor is raised to a height above the maximum loaded waterline.

Are you sure that raising it only two inches is enough?

 

[Suttle]

I did some years ago on a Stella, had to raise it about 3" I think. Also had to rebuild all the side opening cockpit lockers to top opening and create a small bridge deck. All glassed in. I kept the locker height the same so the shallower cockpit was only noticeable when standing.

A lot of work but worth it for relatively drier bilges.

 

[Tranona]

Would not bother unless you regularly get significant amounts of water in the cockpit when sailing. My Eventide does not have an SD cockpit - rarely get any spray in their let alone solid water and a cockpit cover keeps it nice and dry when not being used.

 

[LittleSister]

Is it a problem as it is? I don't know that particular boat, but suspect the loss of depth to the cockpit would be regretted

If it is a problem, how about a compromise? (1) Fit addditional cockpit drains above both the floor and waterline level (perhaps through the transom) to deal with the case of the cockpit being filled by being pooped or whatever.

Then, if so desired, (2) run the existing cockpit floor drains to a smallish sump/tank with its own pump to deal with spray or a bit of rain and keep it out of the bilges.

With both 1 & 2 you wouldn't have to worry about the cockpit filling with rain if left unattended, as it could never fill above the higher level drains of (1). You'd have dry(er) bilges, and save a lot of DIY and the loss of the cockpit depth.

 

[William_H]

Draining cockpit

Your biggest problem with a plywood boat is rot caused by collection of fresh water on wood. If a glassed in self draining cockpit would stop rain water getting in then that would be very valuable. Plus along with the safety of being able to seal the cabin so in a knockdown or similar she won't sink but will self drain.
All small boats have the same problem of high cockpit floor to keep it above water line when loaded. They seem to manage OK. I think that fibreglass and self draining cockpits which seem to go together are one of the huge safety advances of the last 50 years. I bet the old fishermen would love to have had this advantage.
Whether the boat is worth the money spent on it is another question which only you can answer. But keep on the look out for that rot. good luck olewill

 

[Amulet]

Can't imagine feeling at ease without a self draining cockpit. I regularly get big lumps of water in mine I'm afraid - usually because I shorten sail too late.

Raising it above the waterline: you really want it to be above the waterline when heeled. Mine dips the corner below the waterline when heeled. My solution (at some point) will be to will be to have the sole rise in the corners - i.e., not be flat.

It's relatively easy to work out where the waterline is when level - much harder to do it for when you are heeled. I keep meaning to draw a pencil line around the puddle for reference at some point when I'm heeled.

 

[rob2]

There are other consideratios when fixing on the level of the cockpit sole and the drainage arrangements. Ideally try to get some line drawings of the boat and then consider the case both level and when heeled. Older designs used to cross the drains to help prevent water flowibg back up the drains. Will you put the drains at the forward or aft end of the cockpit? The design of boat I have originally had the drains at the aft end and once the quarter wave built up the cockpit would be awash, later versions had the drains at the forward end which solved the problem.

I used to sail on a friend's boat with the sole only about an inch above the static waterline. The drains were horizontal through the transom with a sorbo ball threaded onto bungee cord threaded through so they could be closed to prevent the waves coming in. Even with the balls in place she would drain slowly if we shipped water, but you could lower them to allow them to flow more freely.

I'd be inclined to raise the sole by the minimum amount necessary and use crossed drains.

Rob.

 

[Blueboatman]

These jobs are always more work than you think.. However, if you have the time skill and inclination ( and i presume you have all three ) to actually improve the boat then why not?
Then it can be left on a mooring or battened down at sea, if that is where you are headed. Fit canvas cockpit dodgers for increased security too perhaps and a wee dodger over the hatch..and a hatch garage of course... Still, there's only rubbish on t'telly?

 

[Amulet]

Crossed drains don't change the level. The water wants to be the same level in the cockpit as outside. The goal, I believe, is to stop water squirting up the drain when pounding to windward.

 

[Daydream believer]

I did some years ago on a Stella, had to raise it about 3" I think. Also had to rebuild all the side opening cockpit lockers to top opening and create a small bridge deck. All glassed in. I kept the locker height the same so the shallower cockpit was only noticeable when standing.

A lot of work but worth it for relatively drier bilges.

The early Stellas built by Tucker Brown were offered with a SD cockpit as an extra made from a zinc tray
Fortunately a Stella Has a deep bilge but I still had occasions when I had to pump every 15 mins because it could be like driving a submarine to windward. Fantastic boat though. I had 2 ----no 104 & no 103

If you fit a SD cockpit make sure you check the heights as you might end up building a self filling cockpit when healed. You can make the drain on the starboard side drain out to the port side & vice versa. It will not drain fully when healed but will stop water running back through the drains when healed

 

[ghostlymoron]

I think that this would be a fruitless excercise. Design of small boats is always a compromise and the designer of yours has optimised cockpit depth and sacrificed self draining. If I were you and consider self draining important I would sell current boat and buy one that suits your requirements. Modifications of this kind are rarely successful and throw up more problems than they solve.

 

[Kelpie]

And, on the other hand, it can also work just fine.
A mate of mine converted his SCOD to have a self-draining cockpit and bridge deck. Fairly big job but worth it.

 

[Suttle]

The early Stellas built by Tucker Brown were offered with a SD cockpit as an extra made from a zinc tray
Fortunately a Stella Has a deep bilge but I still had occasions when I had to pump every 15 mins because it could be like driving a submarine to windward. Fantastic boat though. I had 2 ----no 104 & no 103

If you fit a SD cockpit make sure you check the heights as you might end up building a self filling cockpit when healed. You can make the drain on the starboard side drain out to the port side & vice versa. It will not drain fully when healed but will stop water running back through the drains when healed

I also had two, 88 which I converted to SD cockpit and then 7. Both wet boats and a nightmare when being launched each season, usually had to spend the first night aboard pumping!

I obtained the plans for the SD cockpit conversion from the Holman & Pye.

 

[Daydream believer]

I also had two, 88 which I converted to SD cockpit and then 7. Both wet boats and a nightmare when being launched each season, usually had to spend the first night aboard pumping!

I had 104 from new( for 10 years) so never had any problem
I was unable to buy her back 25 years later so bought 103 as a total wreck.
I stripped it to a hull only & replaced everything. When launched at Burnham YH the yard were amazed saying it was the first Stella they had that did not leak a drop. In the 4 years i had Justisla she never leaked a thing apart from a stern gland that had to have the packing replaced once
Great when you realise Richard Mathews Scorpio leaked even with the backup of Oysters yard