Convert Devon Yawl to either standing or balanced lug?

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Gododdin

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Hi, I'm very taken with the simplicity of Roger Barnes' 'Ilur' with its very simple loose footed standing lug rig. However I'm finding that the Ilur is very difficult to come by here in the UK. On the other hand I've recently been offered a Devon Yawl at a good price in need of some TLC. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice about the desirability or practicality of converting the Yawl's rig to a standing or balanced lug (with or without the mizzen). I know that windward performance will be better with the Bermuda rig but I'm not too bothered about that. My main question is whether I could get the mast far enough forward for a lug on the Yawl because there is a small foredeck which I'm guessing is important for the integrity of the whole structure. Or am I just trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole? ;)
 
I think if you went for a bigger balanced lug and no mizzen, the balance could potentially work out ok - the balanced lug has more sail ahead of the mast than the standing lug.
I wouldn't go boomless myself, it's not great off the wind.
It's worth reading Michael Storer on the balanced lug rig on his Goat Island Skiff design - he thinks, with some evidence, that they're nowhere near as slow as some believe them to be. You're setting a lot of sail low down, with less heeling force per square foot of sail as a result.
 
MisterBaxter said:
I think if you went for a bigger balanced lug and no mizzen, the balance could potentially work out ok - the balanced lug has more sail ahead of the mast than the standing lug.
I wouldn't go boomless myself, it's not great off the wind.
It's worth reading Michael Storer on the balanced lug rig on his Goat Island Skiff design - he thinks, with some evidence, that they're nowhere near as slow as some believe them to be. You're setting a lot of sail low down, with less heeling force per square foot of sail as a result.
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Many thanks for that. Some great info on 'opengoose.com'. Gives me hope that it might work out ok. I'm still concerned about getting the mast far enough forward. I guess it might be possible to cut a hole in the foredeck for the mast and step it into a housing at the keel.
 
Is there a Devon Yawl club or association may help with finding the center of the sail plan.I rather like the idea of a mizzenmast especially if you like fishing
 
Gododdin said:
Yes there is. I'm in the process of becoming a member. Yes, love a bit of fishing! :)
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I think the mizzenmast was an important part of the rig of the Pilchard Drivers and many west country small boats have mizzens….I had a Standing Lug rigged clinker dinghy without a boom…..went like a rocket😊
 
I've recently converted my dinghy to a standing lug. It's all a bit of a lash up but it works much better than I expected. No boom. It's a trade off between ease of use and performance.
I'm really enjoying the lug. You can raise or lower the sail in seconds. I've made little strops as travellers for the halyard and downhaul, and use snap hooks to attach to the sail. It takes a few moments to unclip the sail, roll it up around the yard, and stuff it in to its bag. Sheet stays attached.

The biggest worry I would have scaling this up to a larger boat (my dinghy is only 11ft with a 4.3m² sail) is the sheet loads. With no boom, I just have a direct pull via a block at the stern, so no purchase at all. I don't fancy the idea of a block at the clew on a loose footed sail.
 
I wouldn't move the mast position

Just a case of balancing the new rig so that the centre of effort of the new sail(s) is over the centre of lateral resistance of the centreboard.

Do a scale drawing to start with.

Standing lug or dipping lug will have some sail area in front of the mast so you can adjust this with the position of the halyard on the gaff until the boat is balanced and sails nicely - and you can adjust the angle of the centreboard to move the centre of lateral resistance forward and back - and maybe you can rake the mast a bit. Maybe not use the mizzen.

If you are having new sails made or sails re-cut the sail maker will be able to help with the sail shape/size / length of foot etc so that it balances nicely.

You might also need some advice on mast and rigging or a fresh mast, as the Bermudian mast might not take the point load from the gaff.

Maybe get a complete lug rig off a similar boat. Maybe speak to the DY builders.

Then try it and see what happens. if it doesn't sail nicely, adjust things until it does.

I wouldn't cut the bermudian mast if you still have it until you are happy with the lug rig.

Don't take my word for it. Ask around and look at similar sized dinghies which already have lug rigs - go to a traditional dinghy place or events.
 
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Egret said:
I wouldn't move the mast position

Just a case of balancing the new rig so that the centre of effort of the new sail(s) is over the centre of lateral resistance of the centreboard.

Do a scale drawing to start with.

Standing lug or dipping lug will have some sail area in front of the mast so you can adjust this with the position of the halyard on the gaff until the boat is balanced and sails nicely - and you can adjust the angle of the centreboard to move the centre of lateral resistance forward and back - and maybe you can rake the mast a bit. Maybe not use the mizzen.

If you are having new sails made or sails re-cut the sail maker will be able to help with the sail shape/size / length of foot etc so that it balances nicely.

You might also need some advice on mast and rigging or a fresh mast, as the Bermudian mast might not take the point load from the gaff.

Maybe get a complete lug rig off a similar boat. Maybe speak to the DY builders.

Then try it and see what happens. if it doesn't sail nicely, adjust things until it does.

I wouldn't cut the bermudian mast if you still have it until you are happy with the lug rig.

Don't take my word for it. Ask around and look at similar sized dinghies which already have lug rigs - go to a traditional dinghy place or events.
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Thanks for that - very useful info! I was not planning to cut the Bermudan mast but to make a new wooden one. I like the idea of getting a complete lug rig off a similar boat. I will probably put the existing mast (main and mizzen) and sails away safely and 'start from scratch'. I was thinking of having a new main sail made.
 
The Salcombe Yawls all sail upwind with their mizzens flapping. They think that pulling it in just causes drag. Loose or tight makes no difference to boat balance as its not powered up either way. So have a mizzen or not for the aesthetics or the ability to sit head to wind and picnic, but otherwise don't worry about it.
 
Leave the mast where it is, make the new lugsail fairly high peaked, I doubt you will notice much loss of performance to windward.
Main thing with a standing or balanced lug is a powerful tack downhaul, 3 or 4 to 1, dont be scared to wind it on!
 
Keith 66 said:
Leave the mast where it is, make the new lugsail fairly high peaked, I doubt you will notice much loss of performance to windward.
Main thing with a standing or balanced lug is a powerful tack downhaul, 3 or 4 to 1, dont be scared to wind it on!
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Nigel Irens”improved the lugsail on his open boat designs of which the name escapes me
 
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