Conversion to Electric Power for a 32ft Sailboat

[Twister_Ken]

An awful lot of racers, for a start.

Not those who race who find themselves at the far corner of the track when the committee shortens course through lack of wind. Once towed back a couple of Dragons on an RTI when the race finished at Bem Ledge and the tide was taking them off to Selsey.

 

[Tranona]

An awful lot of racers, for a start. Many people who day sail from marinas. Probably lots of others too.

Well, technologie for that has been around for over 100 years - in fact it predates the use of IC engines in boats, and for a few years was more popular than IC for cars (in the US at least). Have not seen any rush to use it by the type of users you suggest.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Friends of mine have a hybrid powered narrowboat.

Narrowboats tend to have 60 feet of roof, 6 feet wide. That's room for a lot of PV.

If an IC engine can run at constant revs, it can be vastly more efficient than one that has to cope with varying torque/power requirements.

I suspect that most auxiliaries do run at constant speed on longer motoring passages. I stick mine at 2500 rpm and leave it there.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Well, technologie for that has been around for over 100 years - in fact it predates the use of IC engines in boats, and for a few years was more popular than IC for cars (in the US at least). Have not seen any rush to use it by the type of users you suggest.

Do send me a one hundred year old catalogue for lithium-ion batteries and high power semiconductor controllers. I'd love to see it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not those who race who find themselves at the far corner of the track when the committee shortens course through lack of wind. Once towed back a couple of Dragons on an RTI when the race finished at Bem Ledge and the tide was taking them off to Selsey.

In that case they can switch on the nice, light diesel.

 

[earlybird]

The main reason for diesel electric transmission in locomotives is that this does away with the need for a clutch and multi-ratio gearbox, expensive for several thousand kW. Also, a suitable electric motor produces high torque at zero rpm, (like a steam engine). Without some form of energy storage, the load on the diesel will vary with the work output of the loco.
Boats don't need these features of course.
Re efficiency, I don't know actual figures, but I would have thought that a generator- electric motor combination was well below that of a mechanical gearbox.

 

[Tranona]

Do send me a one hundred year old catalogue for lithium-ion batteries and high power semiconductor controllers. I'd love to see it.

The motor technology is there. If you only want to go in and out of a marina then you do not need that. Just a big battery, battery charger and a motor (as your friend has discovered). Lithium-ion batteries do not change the basic limitations of electric only power.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The motor technology is there. If you only want to go in and out of a marina then you do not need that. Just a big battery, battery charger and a motor (as your friend has discovered). Lithium-ion batteries do not change the basic limitations of electric only power.

They do, you know. You can - for a price - buy a luxury electric saloon car with a range of 300 miles, or an extremely good electric sports car with a range of 200 miles. Neither would have been possible with lead-acid technology.

Anyway, we were talking about hybrids, which completely overcome the basic limitations of electric power.

 

[Twister_Ken]

They do, you know. You can - for a price - buy a luxury electric saloon car with a range of 300 miles, or an extremely good electric sports car with a range of 200 miles. Neither would have been possible with lead-acid technology.

Anyway, we were talking about hybrids, which completely overcome the basic limitations of electric power.

Lion batteries (or another battery technology yet to be commercialised) might well change the ball game in the future, but the fact remains that neither 100% electrical or hybrid yachts have proven to be a success with today's technology. The basic limitations still apply.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Lion batteries (or another battery technology yet to be commercialised) might well change the ball game in the future, but the fact remains that neither 100% electrical or hybrid yachts have proven to be a success with today's technology.

Of course. My point is that the technology is changing extremely fast. The cost of Li-ion batteries is falling fast, and there may well be better things on the way. It's just daft to rule out hybrid or electrical systems on the basis of the technology of five years ago, let alone a hundred. Remember when racing boats had terylene sails?

The basic limitations still apply.

But change constantly.

 

[lw395]

Seems a lot of fuss about a secondary power source.
Easier to get a boat that sails better and sail it more.

Plenty of people, myself included, have managed with no engine at all.
People generally managed with much less powerful engines years ago.

The requirement is ill-defined, very different for different people.
The objectives of the people involved might be seen as flogging column inches and green propaganda.

I'm more interested in using battery and generator technology to control the sails/steering/sailing, as in the more advanced autopilots that are possible.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Seems a lot of fuss about a secondary power source.
Easier to get a boat that sails better and sail it more.

Plenty of people, myself included, have managed with no engine at all.
People generally managed with much less powerful engines years ago.

Unfortunately, and to quote a rugby song...

"When the wind wouldn't blow and the ship wouldn't go..."

 

[Twister_Ken]

Of course. My point is that the technology is changing extremely fast. The cost of Li-ion batteries is falling fast, and there may well be better things on the way. It's just daft to rule out hybrid or electrical systems on the basis of the technology of five years ago, let alone a hundred. Remember when racing boats had terylene sails?

It remains impossible for the OP to build a satisfactory system with today's technology, although maybe he's prepared to cross his fingers and wait five years!

 

[lw395]

Unfortunately, and to quote a rugby song...

"When the wind wouldn't blow and the ship wouldn't go..."

It's very rare to have no wind at all for very long.
We never actually failed to have a pretty good cruise over a week with a fixed start and end point.
The whole problem is overstated.

We have motors because they are cheap and easy enough that it makes sense to.
Like all the electronic luggage we carry.
It's become the norm.
'Sailing' as we know it has evolved around cheap diesel and people who are affluent enough to burn a lot of it touring the med etc.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It remains impossible for the OP to build a satisfactory system with today's technology, although maybe he's prepared to cross his fingers and wait five years!

I think it can be done now, but the cost is horrifying for any significant range. The Victoria 800 electric conversion cost - I think - around £20k and that's with the previous lead-acid batteries. I don't think it'll be too long, though, before something respectable performance becomes affordable.

Tesla are selling a 70kWh battery pack for the Roadster for $29,000. The original pack stored significantly less (about 40kWh, I think) and cost $50,000, so things are moving the right way. 100kWh for $10,000 isn't an impossible dream.

 

[Tranona]

Do send me a one hundred year old catalogue for lithium-ion batteries and high power semiconductor controllers. I'd love to see it.

Your prayers might be answered.

Announcement in this month's YM of the w1Da 33 a 33' sporty cruiser powered by a regenerating 6kw retractable electric motor, L-ion batteries and solar power. www.w1Da.com for details.

Will be interesting to see whether the CGI website has any substance behind it, and indeed a boat that works!

 

[thesaintlyone]

What about using a forklift motor connected to a marine gearbox
The lovely people at Sailing Uma are doing it in episode 9 and have got the idea from car conversions the parts appear to be cost effective!!!

 

[sailorjim]

Hello to all
I've just done 1000 km through French canals in a 27-foot, 4.5-ton Broads sailing cruiser equipped with a Torqeedo cruise 4R outboard (4 kW, about 9 hp) running off 8 x 6v 225 Ah lead acid batteries (about 10 kWh and 300 kg). The whole setup, including motor, batteries and charger came to 5-6000 euros. I got a range of 50+ km running at 1000 watts, giving about 7-8 kph (max. speed about 9.5). I had a 2-kW genset as backup but didn't have to use it.
I realize this may not be fully relevant to sea-going yachts that have to cope with current and waves.
BUT
- The 1000 km cost me nothing, as charging was either free or included in the marina fees
- I had no qualms about the motor not starting, and could switch it off in the locks
- There were no engine fumes, which can be a pain when motoring with a tail wind
- An electric motor is totally maintenance-free
- The Torqeedo is light enough (17 kg) to carry.

 

[thesaintlyone]

Having looked at a number of forums and websites dealing with the issue of whether it is worth the conversion or not really boils down to a couple of issues:
1) Your Overall needs - if you are looking at convenience of getting where you want to go regardless of wind conditions then maybe a maximum range of maybe 50nm might not be sufficient but then again if your only looking to get in and out of harbors, marinas anchorages etc and you don't mind being occasionally becalmed then why not
2) Your Preference - if the diesel engine infuriates you then maybe the conversion is worth the investigation!
3) Your Personal Circumstances - For me personally the project boat I am hoping to get is a part completed project that was left for whatever reason in a boatyard, It has no engine as it was removed by the previous owner some time ago and most likely sold on which means one way or another I have to re-power the vessel and finally for me the idea of being totally self sufficient is something that appeals I have always been interested in the doomsday scenarios and that has I guess in part fueled (Pardon the pun) and interest in regenerative power from natural sources whether or not that means the chance of becoming becalmed increases or not......hell I can always fish!!!

Regards