Contaminated road fuel

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
It is claimed that it is deposited on the sensors as silica which interfers with their operation. I don't know if any sensors have been examined to prove that they have a silica deposit on them but that would seem to me to be a logical next step.

I am wondering what effect silica deposits might have on the catalytic converters. It is well known that lead poisons the catalyst but what will be the effect of coating it in silica. Loads of cars failing the CO emisions test at their next MOT perhaps.

[/ QUOTE ]I think we are thinking along the same lines. Yes, maybe silicone is available in the refinery making is a possible error, would it work as fast as this appears to have done? Maybe there was a lot of additive added? Maybe malicious? Still, I would like to learn more about whether lead TEL is still available and used in refineries. Lead is a killer in very small quantities if the reaction is catalytic, which I suspect this one is.

 

[LeonF]

If they are trying to seek a commercial advantage from selling sub standard product that is damaging customers cars then they should be flogged within an inch of their lives.
Interesting point, but what about the cheap imported food products that though not damaging are not as beneficial as say a home grown free range product ?? The imported turkey debacle springs to mind!!
I asked a caterer friend of mine who runs a private restaurant on a boat how the chains of pubs and restaurants could offer the sunday lunches two for a fiver deals, and she said simple, they buy cheap imported raw materials.

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
No-ones come close yet !!!!

Anti-foaming agents !! ...... Have to remember that one ......

[/ QUOTE ] So given that samples analysed by both Tescos and Trading Standards have been found to contain high levels of silicon what should they be looking for as the source if it is not a silicone based additive that should not be there.

As there appears to be only one expert in the western world who knows the answer to this is time to let us all know the correct explanation. Or are you still insisting that the unprecedented number of cars in the south east with failed O2 sensors is due to some cause not related to the fuel.

A spokesman for the Petrol Retailers Association on TV this morning was actually speculating that a whole consignment delivered to the depot that seems to be at the centre of all the troubles (thats the one beside the QE2 bridge at West Thurrock .... Volpack ?) was likely to be the source. Tescos and Morrisons have taken it seriously enough to be withdrawing and replacing unleaded fuel at over 150 filling stations in the SE.

I hope for your sake that a silicone antifoaming additive does not turn out to be the cause of the trouble because if it does then you won't have to remember it; you will be reminded of it regularly!

 

[Anonymous]

Well, it does look as though it might be silicone. It is interesting that a senior scientist with BP was interviewed early on and he said that it would probably turn out to be some impurity in the ethanol used.

Listening to BBC News (we have a Sky dish here in the winter) I was intrigued to hear that Tesco are reported as saying that the problem is 'gradually diminishing' or words to that effect, suggesting that the adulterant is being diluted over time - which, of course, one would expect if no action had been taken. However, the implication is that there is a level of adulteration below which the poison is harmless yet everything we have read about the poisoning of those sensors suggests that the effect would be cumulative.

I suspect that many more people might have suffered degradation of their sensors that might result in short life, i.e. requiring earlier replacement. Everyone who has filled up at affected pumps during the period of risk should ask for a replacement sensor (and cat, or other sensitive items) whether or not their motor exhibits poor running.

 

[VicS]

Now reported that the contamination has been traced to 4 tanks at Vorpak's site.

Harvest Energy who share facilities with Greenenergy have said that contamination had not been detected before sale because the routine tests did not include one for silicon.

I guess that the news value of the story is now fading and we will never hear if the actual source of the contaminaton is identified.


Nigel,

Just to fill in the science; What methods might you use to detect and measure silicon in fuel and what techniques would you/could you use to establish the exact identity and concentration of the contaminant. Any idea of the sort of concentrations they might be finding. In the ppm or the ppb range or lower.

 

[Guest]

Re: Contaminated road fuel ..... OK ....

I posted in haste as I was going literally out the door to sort out a fuel problem with a client.

My reading of the post that prompted me to post gave me impression that people were thinking large amounts of silcone etc, were just being poured in etc.
Anti-foaming agents are not just based on Silicon - they are blended compounds and used sparingly - as they are "old-hat".
I reacted wrongly - I admit and shall pay a price for it here ... but at least I got a ;point over ... the levels of additives used are in PPM .... in some cases PPB .... not as many probably think ... in large %ages of the fuel qty.

I have to be acreful as you can appreciate - because I don't want my biz to suffer by me giving out confidential info ... so I use variuous ruse tricks / wording to get people to search / look - so I am not reporting.
If you read my posts on these sort of subjects - you will find I am careful about it.

As to the sellers re-stocking 150 or so stations ... what do you expect them to do ? Try and convince Joe Public that nothing wrong ? Best way is to say "%^&* it ..... dump and re-stock" ... Joe Public will appreciate it ... drift back toi those pumps and that company will have a Gold tick for being Client friendly.

I nwill say this - I still say too many so-called experts are spouting off (I don't mean here ... I mean quoted by media) and the story as I am informed is still not wholly out or known ... maybe it will never be known ...

Oh - and don't you think it strange that I was FIRST here to hint at West Thurrock Storage ?? Ask yourself not me .... Why ?

Test for Silicon or Silicone Compounds ..... various and I'm not going to fill YBW threads with the test numbers etc.

 

[Guest]

If pure silicon ... which I doubt ......... AAS (Atomic Absorption Spectro).

But as I said in previous - there are many compounds and ways to test .... the above AAS is only to answer you as asked.

What I will say ... and I am taking a risk here ... My info was cross contamination of product in a shore facility. And that is not 100% certain - I have that from a very close friend .... Any more than that for me is speculation.