Contaminated road fuel

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I have to be careful here ....... as people know I have clients in this business and my labs get used etc.

Speaking to one of my clients involved in UK Fuel Markets .... his comments are (sensitive removed for commercial reasons ...)

Blimey Nige ... they'll be blaming us for burnt exhauts, fouled spark-plugs .. every clapped out car that fails .. already we know that most claims are just people jumping on the band-wagon ... Next they'll be claiming diesel !

Ok ... XXXXX - what about the BBC etc. with possible excess Ethanol ...
Nige you and I know that's rubbish ... ethanol is checked to make sure it is very low levels ... better the media and reporters find an expert who knows what they are talking about ...
Nige it's bad for the market 'cause %^&* are spreading stories that are just plain rubbish ... trouble is people believe it ... and you can bet the majors will laugh this one all the way to the bank !!

Well you can't really say much more than that really .... apart from the rubbish I read about this sort of thing is beyond belief ... I've blended both gasoline and Diesel for EU and UK markets ... if you think you are getting different fuels at different pumps ... I wish you luck ...

Now where's that claim form ... I developed a boil on my bum after visiting T***o filling station ....

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
How can you say that Nigel?
It's been in the papers and on the radio and TV and everything.
Next thing you'll be telling us that the reports of global warming as a result of man's efforts is all rubbish, despite the media campaign to convince us otherwise. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
The oxygen sensors that are being contaminated are sending the fueling very lean, in some cases into limp home mode. I wonder how many drivers are having there emission's checked after a fuel and sensor change as I expect there will be a few melted cats especially the more elderly ones. I would think the bad batch of fuel has probably passed through the system by now as it will take a few days to have an effect and a pattern to emerge. I have not herd of any problems with diesel fuel.
 
Nigel, I was hoping you'd pop in. Is tetra ethyl lead still added to petrol - ie is it actually in the refineries? If so, it could get into fuel? The research I did on the O2 sensors suggests that lead is the prime killer for those sensors. Makes more sense than ethanol.
 
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I think it ought to be said, Richard, that while there are plenty of 'feckless poor' who do as you say, there are far more ordinary folks - like many here - many who have retired or have taken redundancy/early retirement on reduced circumstances who don't smoke, seldom drink and don't have a big entertainment budget.

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I dont disagree.... Having bought a boat, spent the capital, and had my mate go bust owing me a chunk of money, I too am on quite a serious budget.... but I was responding to the suggestion that only high flyers could afford to buy petrol at BP, Shell, Texaco, Esso etc., which is patently untrue.

The said response was after I had passed on some anecdotal "evidence" from someone who I believe knows something about this type of thing.... just so happens that he knows it because he was high up at Shell.

I agree that £4 per tankful at say 50 tanks a year is a saving worth having, (I'm all for saving a few times 200 quid a year, but I am also suggesting that it might be a price worth paying if there is a danger of being carless for a while, and facing a hefty repair bill.

It remains to be seen exactly what has happened, and whether there really has been some kind of cock up, or whether every Tom Dick and Harry who's car has broken down is blaming it on petrol, (or the garages are taking the opportunity to blame it on the petrol and put in a big bill for not much work... cynical, moi?).

Not having a go at you...... just explaining my reasoning

Cheers
 
Yes, I thought that, Richard, but I wanted to put the record straight /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Yes but that misses the point.

All retailers have a duty to sell what is fit for purpose.

If they are trying to seek a commercial advantage from selling sub standard product that is damaging customers cars then they should be flogged within an inch of their lives.

Can anyone seriously expect a senior manager at Shell to say any other than people should use his product.

The supermarkets have been selling petrol for years without destroying their customers engines - clearly something has gone very wrong somewhere and its up to them to put it right and to remedy the damage they have caused.
 
I've tried running the "best fuel I can afford" but not noticed any difference whatsoever. I tried several tankfull (like about 3 months' worth) of Shell's Optimax and about the same on BP's Ultimate but went back to supermarket petrol because I couldn't find any discernible difference in performance or economy. I guess it depends on the car. Some of the more modern high performance cars with knock sensors might get some benefit, but mine didn't. As for the claims about it cleaning the engine, I'm sure that will work. I left some sooty inlet valves in a jar of Optimax and it did make a pretty good job of cleaning them, but my car has nearly a quarter of a million miles on it and is likely to die of rust long before engine failure so I'm not sure I can see the point.
 
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Yes but that misses the point.

All retailers have a duty to sell what is fit for purpose.

If they are trying to seek a commercial advantage from selling sub standard product that is damaging customers cars then they should be flogged within an inch of their lives.

Can anyone seriously expect a senior manager at Shell to say any other than people should use his product.

The supermarkets have been selling petrol for years without destroying their customers engines - clearly something has gone very wrong somewhere and its up to them to put it right and to remedy the damage they have caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see how it misses the point. Some retailers sell things which are more fit for purpose than others.... are the supermarkets driving a harder bargain for exactly the same quality of product, or are they selling the same quality of product at a lower margin as a loss leader? Personally i dont think so.

If you were to meet my source at Shell, you would tend to believe that he wasnt leading you up the garden path.... and he actually said that he would not only use Shell, but would also use one of their competitors.... you may think it was spin.... I dont.

Where I do agree is that there has been a cock up, but it is a cock up in an arena where the supermarkets are not in control of their supply line, whereas the Oil producers are.
 
just how many refineries do people think there are in the UK supplying fuel to the whole market. There are actually only a few and no matter what it says on the side of the tanker that pulls into Tesco or Morrisons or wherever, it's the fuel inside that matters, and in a local area if you have a Sainsbury, Morrison Asda, Tesco or whatever selling fuel, theres a good chance that they all filled up at the local distributers from the same tap, and the distributer would have been supplied by Shell, BP, Texaco at any time, depending on who their supply contract is with.
 
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Nigel, I was hoping you'd pop in. Is tetra ethyl lead still added to petrol - ie is it actually in the refineries? If so, it could get into fuel? The research I did on the O2 sensors suggests that lead is the prime killer for those sensors. Makes more sense than ethanol.

[/ QUOTE ]

TEL is a controlled substance and is not available across most refineries - especially those that refine in UK / EU.
It is normally only found in "3rd world" refineries where Leaded gasoline is still used.

To those who say "How can you say that Nigel - it's in all the papers etc. ........" regarding this batch of bad fuel ... then all I can say is - think on all the other stories that are Wham Bham ... look at this - then turn out to be hearsay and journalistic sensationalism ....

The world filtering down to me is possible cross contamination of diesel and gasoline stock in a storage facility or poor Vapour pressure ... but it's only talk on the "shop-floor" ... no-ones talking really ... and media is as far as Market goies = speculating based on "Experts" outside the real people ... I have to laugh when they quote AA / RAC "specialists ... as example ... They are as in the dark as anyone else ... if a supplier keeps stuum - then even the KGB would have trouble finding out !!
 
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How can you say that Nigel?
It's been in the papers and on the radio and TV and everything.
Next thing you'll be telling us that the reports of global warming as a result of man's efforts is all rubbish, despite the media campaign to convince us otherwise. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause it happens to be my main line of Business .... I don't make statements about your B&B ....... OK ! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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just how many refineries do people think there are in the UK supplying fuel to the whole market. There are actually only a few and no matter what it says on the side of the tanker that pulls into Tesco or Morrisons or wherever, it's the fuel inside that matters, and in a local area if you have a Sainsbury, Morrison Asda, Tesco or whatever selling fuel, theres a good chance that they all filled up at the local distributers from the same tap, and the distributer would have been supplied by Shell, BP, Texaco at any time, depending on who their supply contract is with.

[/ QUOTE ]

And in fact UK refineries cannot cope with demand ... so a large amount of fuel is imported anyway ... particularly from my part of the world.
It is bought by all majors and smaller outfits to blend / add / bulk out and also fill UK / EU storage ....

Go to the Dartford Tunnel ... look on South bank of the Thames on West side of bridge / tunnel ..... that is only one storage depot that is making up your fuel .... Do you think it only supplies one or two outlets ?

When I freelanced on Oil Inspection - I used to visit strorage / truck filling stations ... Shoreham, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Thames etc. - the variety of Company Trucks waiting to load is literally across the board ... with the smaller ones such as the odd Petrol Station Companies filling up wherever there is surplus or good price .... etc.
The Supermarkets award Term Contracts to suppliers which could be a Major Oil Co. or a smaller one such as Greenergy etc. They drive a hard bargain and make the supplier earn their contract ....

Just because you see a name - doesn't necessarily mean that is exactly who made it ....
 
Intriguing...

This is an intriguing insight you're giving us. I can understand that run-of-the-mill ordinary petrol just comes out of a big storage tank somewhere, but what about the "special" branded products such as Shell Optimax and BP Ultimate? We're told these have special additives - are these just added when the tanker's filled up, or is the petrol specially blended and stored separately?
 
A report on TV this morning stated Greenergy ( or that matches what they said ) as the supplier. They quoted it was a green fuel, as it was mixed with beat extract or something ??

Brian
 
>>>
but I was responding to the suggestion that only high flyers could afford to buy petrol at BP, Shell, Texaco, Esso etc., which is patently untrue.
>>>

My bad, I was being a tad flappant maybe, but the point about buying what you can afford is valid. Arguably however, supermarket own brand "French Red Wine" or Japanese "whiskey"will get you tiddly just as well as a Premier Cru St Emillion or decent drop of Loch Dubh but I know which I would prefer to drink. But that's a choice, I know I don't need to do that to get about my daily trip to work.

Another possible bit of flippancy. All those advocating that you should spend an extra 4ppl or what have you are playing into Gordon's hands, he will quote you when he next seeks to raise fuel duty. Judging by the commenst by some on the Beeb's HYS this attitude must be being encouraged by government plants:-)
 
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A report on TV this morning stated Greenergy ( or that matches what they said ) as the supplier. They quoted it was a green fuel, as it was mixed with beat extract or something ??

[/ QUOTE ]Sugar beet > ethanol? That much makes sense though I feel unhappy about ethanol being the problem; it sounds unlikely.
 
I have not heard the news today but yesterday contamination of O2 sensors by silicones was being considered. I found this bit of info about fouling of sensors [ QUOTE ]
A lambda sensor's normal life span is 30,000 to 50,000 miles. But the sensor may fail prematurely if it becomes clogged with carbon, or is contaminated by lead from leaded petrol or silicone from an antifreeze leak or from silicone sealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I anyone feels like some light reading then the the source of that extract is here
 
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