Container vessel abandoned mid atlantic.

Conachair said:
. . . . . No sign of the Flaminia...

http://www.odin.tc/2012/mscflaminiaen.asp
Click to expand...

That link above is very speculative as to the current location, she is no where near the Scilly Isles or Lizard point. That location is a misread from the AIS "Final Destination" and is totally incorrect.

She is currently standing off at:

49° 1.036'N 008° 49.143'W
 
lenseman said:
That link above is very speculative as to the current location, she is no where near the Scilly Isles or Lizard point. That location is a misread from the AIS "Final Destination" and is totally incorrect.

She is currently standing off at:

49° 1.036'N 008° 49.143'W
Click to expand...

Then the synic in me sets in, they are not just standing her off blaming politics for not brining her in waiting for the next large low pressure system? :o

Is she worth more sunk on insurance than in port to be repaired? :rolleyes:
 
onesea said:
Then the synic in me sets in, they are not just standing her off blaming politics for not brining her in waiting for the next large low pressure system? :o

Is she worth more sunk on insurance than in port to be repaired? :rolleyes:
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I hope you won't mind my commenting on your post - I manage a fleet of large containerships and in my youth I was involved in the salvage business.

Whilst you are correct that the depressed state of the containership market means that the ship may well be insured for more than she could be sold for, the business situation is actually like this:

1. If the ship sinks, the salvors get nothing, so they are motivated to get her into a place of safety and terminate the Lloyds Form.

2. Whilst the ship might not be worth much, there are millions in the cargo. You can't salve the cargo without salving the ship.

3. If the cost of repairs exceeds the "all risks" insured value, the ship will be a constructive total loss ("CTL"), meaning that the underwriters will pay a total loss rather than repairing her. But she will need to be in a place of safety for the survey to be done.

4. Most of the value in the ship is in the engine room and acomodation; this has not been affected by the fire. Most of the fire damage has been in the holds in the middle part of the ship; this part of the ship is largely made of straight, flat steel plates, which can be machine welded. It would be a simple job to drydock the ship, cut out the damaged section and replace it with a new mid-body. This need not be very expensive - I've added sections to container ships more than once. So she might not even be a CTL.

So I think you are being a bit too cynical.
 
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Minn, thanks for your very interesting & informative post. It's great to have inside information for us poor landlubbers. :)

Am I right in assuming that the salvors' involvement ends when the vessel is delivered to a safe haven? Also is the salvors' "fee" based on how difficult the actual recovery is as well as the value of the vessel/cargo?
 
Giblets said:
Minn, thanks for your very interesting & informative post. It's great to have inside information for us poor landlubbers. :)

Am I right in assuming that the salvors' involvement ends when the vessel is delivered to a safe haven? Also is the salvors' "fee" based on how difficult the actual recovery is as well as the value of the vessel/cargo?
Click to expand...

Yes and yes.

LLoyds Form actually uses the words "a place of safety" so it need not be a haven, just a place, but the ship must, objectively, as a matter of fact, not law, be safe there. This is usually settled by the salvors asking the Master or the Owner's representative to sign a "Certificate of Redelivery", in which they confirm that the ship is in a place of safety. Very occasionally, there may be a dispute about it.

There are three main elements in assessing a salvage award:

-the extent of the danger the salved property was in

-the value of the salved property

-the extent, nature and professionalism of the services rendered

There are some additional factors - for example, professional salvors get more than amateurs, because, as a matter of public policy, salvage should be encouraged, and a professional salvor who invests in specialist kit like portable pumps and who has expert staff should be paid more to encourage them to keep it up.

The avoidance of pollution is compensated separately.
 
lenseman said:
That link above is very speculative as to the current location, she is no where near the Scilly Isles or Lizard point. That location is a misread from the AIS "Final Destination" and is totally incorrect.

She is currently standing off at:

49° 1.036'N 008° 49.143'W
Click to expand...

Lots of interesting and timely information


up to 28th July, then nothing, not a word.


What happened ???

Did she sink ??? Hope not.

Or transform into the ultimate stealth vessel ???

How come the total blackout ?? pressure ?? or lack of time ???

Plomong
 
Plomong said:
Lots of interesting and timely information

up to 28th July, then nothing, not a word.

What happened ???

Did she sink ??? Hope not.

Or transform into the ultimate stealth vessel ???

How come the total blackout ?? pressure ?? or lack of time ???

Plomong
Click to expand...

Not a total black out at all, I am monitoring her position about 4 or 5 times a day and currently MSC Flaminia and the three tugs are standing off west of 10 west in deep water off the continental shelf.

If I get an further information, I will post on here. :)
 
Just a short video taken from the air of the fire aboard MSC Flaminia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFYO8MlsyRg&feature=youtu.be


Stricken MSC Ship Towed Farther From Land

Bad weather prevents firefighters from reboarding ship

The fire-damaged container ship MSC Flaminia was towed to about 200 miles from the British coast while salvors waited for weather to improve enough to allow firefighters to reboard the ship.

Owner Reederei NSB said Tuesday that salvors reported the fire in cargo holds 4, 5 and 6 had been extinguished, but that smoke was visible above cargo hold 7 and that temperatures in that part of the ship were rising. The ship was still listing by 10 degrees, the company said.

The MSC Flaminia caught fire July 14 en route from Charleston to Antwerp and was abandoned in the mid-Atlantic. Two crewmembers died and three were injured. The ship has capacity of 6,732 20-foot-equivalent units.

Salvage tugs arrived within days to control the fire and tow the ship toward Britain. The ship was halted about 100 nautical miles from the coast to await clearance into a sheltered area but was towed farther out to sea when weather worsened, Reederei NSB said.

http://www.joc.com/container-lines/stricken-msc-ship-towed-farther-land

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Minn said:
Lloyds Form is really just a glorified arbitration agreement with provisions for security and some boilerplate about pollution, but the parties have to consent to it. The Master has "agency of necessity" to bind the cargo owners to the LOF - so long as he is in command - but if he has abandoned ship sine spe revertendi (I can do this all day... without hope of returning) then there are two consequences - first the salvage award will be larger and secondly there is a slight question about whether the cargo owners are still bound by an agreement made by the ship owners.

In practice, they probably are. You might phone up the owner of a cargo of oil or of coal but phoning several thousand owners of general cargo is impossible.
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Just think of the joy of working out General Average on this one......had to do it for a parcel tanker once with only 3 different cargo owners involved...nightmare!
 
It would seem its likely to heading down the South coast according to the heads up to local authorities today from the EA. No mention of destination ports yet but the fact that they have put people on notice means that a plan is afoot.
 
lenseman said:
Just a short video taken from the air of the fire aboard MSC Flaminia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFYO8MlsyRg&feature=youtu.be


Stricken MSC Ship Towed Farther From Land

Bad weather prevents firefighters from reboarding ship

The fire-damaged container ship MSC Flaminia was towed to about 200 miles from the British coast while salvors waited for weather to improve enough to allow firefighters to reboard the ship.

Owner Reederei NSB said Tuesday that salvors reported the fire in cargo holds 4, 5 and 6 had been extinguished, but that smoke was visible above cargo hold 7 and that temperatures in that part of the ship were rising. The ship was still listing by 10 degrees, the company said.

The MSC Flaminia caught fire July 14 en route from Charleston to Antwerp and was abandoned in the mid-Atlantic. Two crewmembers died and three were injured. The ship has capacity of 6,732 20-foot-equivalent units.

Salvage tugs arrived within days to control the fire and tow the ship toward Britain. The ship was halted about 100 nautical miles from the coast to await clearance into a sheltered area but was towed farther out to sea when weather worsened, Reederei NSB said.

http://www.joc.com/container-lines/stricken-msc-ship-towed-farther-land

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Thanks for the update, Lenseman.

I'm intrigued as to why they don't just take her into port somewhere and fight the remaining fire from shoreside. I would have thought that shoreside facilities would be better and quicker, or is there something aboard that is inconfessable or secret and must be removed or safed before anyone will let her near their waters, let alone into port ???

Plomong
 
Plomong said:
Thanks for the update, Lenseman.

I'm intrigued as to why they don't just take her into port somewhere and fight the remaining fire from shoreside. I would have thought that shoreside facilities would be better and quicker, or is there something aboard that is inconfessable or secret and must be removed or safed before anyone will let her near their waters, let alone into port ???

Plomong
Click to expand...

I think it is because there has been an 'explosion' for which no one can account. The container ship might have been carrying covert munitions, undisclosed toxic chemicals or anything and therefore all this has to checked via the paper trail and the Bill of Lading.

Also the fire has to have been extinguished to a greater degree that it has at present. Currently, they cannot place fire-fighters back onboard due to bad weather in the Western Approaches and will wait out the wx before attempting to put new crews onboard the MSC Flaminia, meanwhile she is stood off.
 
lenseman said:
The container ship might have been carrying covert munitions, undisclosed toxic chemicals or anything and therefore all this has to checked via the paper trail and the Bill of Lading..
Click to expand...

Covert munitions sounds intriguing, but I'm thinking it was carrying some extra terrestrial life form, (sounds much more like the makings of a Hollywood blockbuster don't you think?) and this is could be the real life story to inspire the prequel to the prequel of Alien films.

Aliens that don't like water obviously, otherwise they would just jump over the side and swim ashore and take over the world that way. :D
 
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