Considering new sails

[jonjo]

+1 for Kemp Sails, had 2 sets from them plus a couple of spinnakers. Rob Kemp very knowledgeable and helpful. Not the cheapest , but good value. Wouldn't hesitate to go back.

-1 for Kemp Sails. I still recall my discussions with Rob@Kemps and somehow I ended up with sails that were well made but not right for me at the time. Whether I talked Kemps towards the wrong sail specification due to my inexperience or Rob failed to give proper guidence remains a mute point.

 

[ballyabroad]

an ugly sail is a horrible thing to look at

this is made in the UK by Tabb in the UK but I can hardly look up

I got Jeckells to make me a genoa

it gives me pleasure every time I look at it

and I have seen it being made and met the people who made it

hard to put a price on such a thing



the lady you can see in the film was working hard all day on it. As I was filming I was amazed at the power of her hands. I asked to to squeeze my hand - bloody nora! What a grip!

+1 for Jeckells. Chris popped over to measure for a main and stackpack/mainmate. Good as gold, price competitive and nice people to deal with. The new genny will be coming from Wroxham as well.

 

[jonjo]

ouch!

Ok maybe I was a willing participant in that upselling process. However looking back I now believe that had I spoken to Crusader at the same time I would have ended up with simpler sails better suited to my sailing experience and usage.

Your average recognised UK sailloft business founder has a vast amount of knowledge on his subject and probably knows what sails will suit a particular customer better than the customer after 5 minutes on the phone irrespective of what the customer is asking for. A key differentiator is whether a big ££ order is the outcome or a sail right for the customer. The two outcomes do not necessarily coincide.

Anyone swaying towards a UK sail maker rather than cut price overseas outfit should get the most value for money by drawing on the sail maker's expertise and wisdom. So instead of phoning up and saying:

I want a triradial mainsail in multidimention poly kryptonite laminate with gossamer coated taffeta spun from hand fed silkworms reared in Tuscany, what's your best deal this month?

What you should says is:

My current mainsail is proving uneconomic to service so it is time for a new mainsail. I sail in the following areas with a crew of 2, our maximum offshore passage length is 120 miles, we logged 800 miles last season including 20 out and back day sails. I am semi retired so never have to be in the office Monday morning hence I can schedule around bad weather. My frustrations with the old mainsail were x & y and I am hoping for the following benefits in the new main. What do you suggest.

 

[Tranona]

I've mentioned this many times before, before choosing a sail maker get a sample of their cloth and also get one for Hood sails. Then put a bright light behind the cloth and use a magnifyng glass, what you will see is the amount of fibre to glue. The more fibre there is the stronger the sail is and the longer the sail will last before stretching, you will also see Hood has the most fibre.

Once again you are peddling nonsense.

The world has moved on since you bought sails and your simplistic view is just nonsense. Get yourself into the 21st century and read up all about the different variety of cloth now available for different applications then you will appreciate how useless your "advice" is.

 

[bitbaltic]

I thought the old-school Hood fabric that KellsEye refers to wasn't available anymore, from Hood or anyone else; wasn't it manufactured in Ireland? And the factory shut. Something like that but happy to be corrected.

 

[horatio_nelson]

..... that I would not trust to make to make a wankers hankie.

 

[Tranona]

I thought the old-school Hood fabric that KellsEye refers to wasn't available anymore, from Hood or anyone else; wasn't it manufactured in Ireland? And the factory shut. Something like that but happy to be corrected.

Yes, you are right. The Hood brand is now run by Kemps in the UK and they offer just the same choice of fabrics as if you are buying a Kemp sail and made in the same loft by the same people.

KellysEye has been told this been told this many times but he is stuck in the past and seems incapable of learning anything new.

 

[Daydream believer]

Hyde make their sails in the Philippines, so I wouldn't regard Hyde as a local sailmaker. For me they sit in a middle ground of UK distribution/measurement etc but outsourced manufacture. Doesn't mean the sails are any worse but what happens if the sail is cut wrong for instance.

It is not outsourced-- They own the factory so it is under their total control
I had a sail that I thought had an error & the measurer was down on the boat within 24 hours & would have had it altered if it had been wrong. He then spent a while instructing on its setup. My foresail foil has 2 different sized tracks ( varies by 1-2 mm) & I had inadvertently set the sail in the wrong groove so it pulled out. Putting it in the other groove solved the problem. Point being that there was no quibble until he had checked it was correct

 

[Daydream believer]

would not touch Kemp with a barge pole. They made the sails for my stella & all 4 were poor. When i sent the genoa back for re cutting I had to wait ages . The answer being -" we have prior orders to fulfill". When i pointed out that my order was placed the year earlier so I should be in the front of the queue the berk was very rude. The mainsail was rubbish.

 

[prv]

KellysEye has been told this been told this many times but he is stuck in the past and seems incapable of learning anything new.

He's sailed many more miles than me, so I wouldn't presume to correct him on matters of judgement in seamanship etc. But on any technical, factual point, where Kellyseye makes a blanket assertion it's a pretty safe bet that it will be objectively and demonstrably wrong. Not always, but about nine times out of ten. New readers should probably be aware of this.

Pete

 

[jonjo]

Yes, you are right. The Hood brand is now run by Kemps in the UK and they offer just the same choice of fabrics as if you are buying a Kemp sail and made in the same loft by the same people.

KellysEye has been told this been told this many times but he is stuck in the past and seems incapable of learning anything new.

I passed by the Hood loft on an errand 8 years ago and sensed a business going down hill.

 

[savageseadog]

Considering new sails? Don't worry, lie down, you'll get over it.

 

[Javelin]

I went through a rather laborious quotation exercise last month for a number of sails.
Sunfast 36, 2 x Oyster 435's, Banger 6 tonner, Fisher 25 and also my own 3/4 tonner.

I've been wanting to work with a local sailmaker for ages so I put these sails out as a package to 8 sailmakers.
I have to say Jeckells and No1 (Parker & Kay) were intentionally not invited to tender.
Also Banks, Ullman and UK sails failed to reply to my initial inquiry.

The issue are that even though there's really only two manufacturers of sail cloth the various weights and styles that each sailmaker selected makes direct comparison very difficult if you're not fully up to date with the latest materials and techniques and even then some of the sailmakers tend to add their own names to fabrics and cuts.
So you have to quite prescriptive about what you want up front to stand any chance of comparing one with another.

To complicate things a little more I included North sails who have their own patented sail cloth.

In our case I had over £20k of sails to buy so could negotiate quite hard and of course I was doing this as a boatyard not an individual.
The balance is between quality and price and there's no escaping that if its cheap there's a good reason for it.

We looked at the two cheapest and discounted one (Advantage Sails) for business reasons as they were not VAT registered. (although if they were they would have been one of the most expensive)
The other (Crusader) because despite my specific requests they quoted for something different on almost every sail, why don't people read ??

Third cheapest, (I hope you're sitting down) was North Sails followed by Solo, Dolphin, Kemp, Hyde, Sail Medic.

So North got the order.

As an individual I would have been tempted by Advantage Sails's price but ignoring price North would win every time.

 

[[3889]]

Strange how experienes differ. I ordered a Vektran FB main from Crusader last month and found them very attentive to my needs. North were 20% dearer than all others.
Jeckells were runners up for me but I read a few things about lax after sales service which put me off.
Regarding Kemp, they made an excellent main for my last boat 10 years ago but I'm not at all happy with my 2014 genny which needed considerable leachline tension after 1 season, with consequent hooking.

 

[dom]

Third cheapest, (I hope you're sitting down) was North Sails followed by Solo, Dolphin, Kemp, Hyde, Sail Medic.

So North got the order.

As an individual I would have been tempted by Advantage Sails's price but ignoring price North would win every time.

This post was late last night so I'm assuming Javelin wasn't on the magic marmalade

Seriously though, thanks for this as North probably get knocked off many quoting lists largely due to the misplaced conception that they're irredeemably expensive. Fully support the sentiment of accurately speccing the sail required; otherwise one risks being lured into the end of year rubbish clearout, a.k.a. the Southampton and LBS "boatshow offers".

 

[jonjo]

Strange how experienes differ. I ordered a Vektran FB main from Crusader last month and found them very attentive to my needs.

Same here. I wonder if Javelin used tthe strange bakelite telephonic communication device sitting on his office desk to clarify why the Crusader quoted spec differed.

 

[Javelin]

The significant difference is simply that North offered a much better trade deal than anyone else.

I didn't go back to Crusader because I had seven other good quotes to work with.
My point being as a member of the public this shows that next time you want sails also consider including your local yard as they may well manage to get a better price than you can.
Plus they can possibly receive them better and of course fit them if required.

 

[SAMYL]

an ugly sail is a horrible thing to look at

this is made in the UK by Tabb in the UK but I can hardly look up

I got Jeckells to make me a genoa

it gives me pleasure every time I look at it

and I have seen it being made and met the people who made it

hard to put a price on such a thing



the lady you can see in the film was working hard all day on it. As I was filming I was amazed at the power of her hands. I asked to to squeeze my hand - bloody nora! What a grip!

Perhaps if you slackened your topping lift the sail would set better.

 

[jonic]

Crusader made me some excellent sails last season and customer service was first class and very friendly.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Crusader made me some excellent sails last season and customer service was first class and very friendly.

+1