Confused on Radios - VHF/DSC

Re: How many times

" - In complete agreement with that.

Radio and electrolysis/galvanic corrosion both attract amazing amounts of absolute twaddle from people who obviously have no clue whatsoever what they are talking about."

So does osmosis - so help me I have rarely seem so much twaddle written by the anally retentive masses and put over as gospel. ALL grp boats suffer from osmosis to some degree or other. Some resins are better at slowing down the water intake than others but I have yet to hear of a boat that sank because of osmosis.

While I am in the rant mode the other twaddle preached on these forums is "unless the work is done by a recognised professional repairer and has full supporting paper work it is useless" - I personally know professionals that I would not let near any boat of mine, conversely, I also know "amateurs" that I would gladly pay to work on my boat if they weren't so busy either doing something to their own boat or away out sailing.

Rant mode over - away to bed - off sailing early tomorrow for a few days while the weather holds.

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Is that the majority of vessels that have DSC or the minority, thats also if people havent turned their sets of because of French radio stations.

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Re: How many times

Whilst I rather agree with what you say, I would just add that whereas with my old Sailor RT I could coach any child or guest to us it in basic operation within 1 minute. The new DSC set would be totally unusable by most people until they spend some time with the user manual, unless of course they wish to hit the distress button and go the whole way to 'full emergency'.

After having sailed admitedly only a few times after fitting the new unit, I still have to ponder a while before using it. This of course is nothing to do with DSC, its just that simple to use 'oldfashioned'units are being replaced with complicated non friendly new tech units.

I only changed as my Sailor packed up... had it not, I would much rather have it back, DSC or no DSC!!

Im not entirely sure this is 'real life' progress.

Nick

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Re: How many times

I agree whole heartedly with what you say. DSC is a pile of doggie poo. Doesn't distract from the fact that many posters don't understand the system, don't know how it works, and post piles of poo

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Re: How many times

But surely all they need to know is how to lift the flap and hold the red button in. I would not have though that was too difficult to teach.

In fact that ease of operation for a non certificated person is the main reason I went to DSC (it is not mandatory for new equipment here). Any more than that and they have to hold an operator's certificate or you must be present to supervise them anyway.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
 
Since DSC relies on MMSI numbers it means that essentially your VHF set will also have the capacity to work like a telephone. Your MMSI becomes your telephone number!. If you know a pals number you will be able to call them up and chew the fat without the need to attract their attention via Ch 16. For working boats this has obvious benefits too. Least that is what I am led to believe. I will purcahse DSC as it still operates as a normal VHF set but offers significant advantage in the event of a mayday - press the button and jump into the raft if all else fails.



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Very true. You can 'chew the fat' with your pal to your heart's content without annoying other people or holding up a channel in the manner of the little Greek ships that are in the mediterranean! However, as I understand it, you are STILL using a vhf system and, therefore, you are still restricted to 'line-of-sight' between the aerials. DSC is not the equivalent of a satellite phone. The main reason that I have mailordered one is that my ancient NASA now shows garbage on the scren whenever I press the PTT. This new DSC set is probably less expensive than the old NASA was when it came out. But then, so are most elecronic goods.
Fair Winds!

<hr width=100% size=1>Wally
 
Re: How many times

Yee gods John! You are expecting forumites to show indepence of thought, knowledge and common sense! All three at once is too much to ask!

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Ye Gods you lot are going to get me the sack!!

m 1taylor, VHF DSC is VHF with a changed calling protocol called Digital Selective Calling (DSC). DSC operates on VHF Channel 70 which has been the International Distress safety and Calling Channel since 1999 when the Global Distress and safety System was fully implemented world wide. Coastguards are now obliged to monitor Channel 70 but agreed to continue monitoring Channel 16 so that pleasure craft had time to catch up.

Halcyon, HMCG now has more than enough on its plate carrying out endless risk assessments and trying to tell Parliament why they can¡¦t predict that someone is going to throw themselves of a high thing into the Sea for suicide purposes.

Dave White, As mentioned above the GMDSS is not a UK idea, it has been adopted world-wide, so can hardly be linked to governments¡¦ attempts to sack all civil servants.

Floatything, Yes one MRCC will from time to time ask for a radio check from another MRCC. Usually takes place if a problem is suspected, as you would expect.

Graham Wright, a ¡§DISTRESS¡¨ call using DSC uses exactly the same circuitry as a ¡§ROUTINE¡¨ call. The answer to your question is to make a routine call to another vessel if it works it works, it¡¦s that simple. Unless you¡¦ve bought a Class A set which has a self-test system.

JohnL, Back-up, if you are in DISTRESS you want to make sure that everyone possible can hear you.

Sailorman, Big ships use DSC for calling and have been required to do so (by law) since 1999, now most ROROs and passenger ferries and the Fishing Fleet also use DSC. By stating that you won¡¦t buy it means that you are willing to reduce the possible audience of your call if in difficulty and therefore compromise your own safety. Of course you are not obliged to carry radio and therefore could consider not doing so but if you do surely it makes sense to carry the right stuff.

TRH, to take that a step further with VHF ANY call you make on Channel 16 is heard by EVERYBODY no matter what its purpose. With DSC ONLY those intended for ¡§ALL SHIPS¡¨ will be heard by all ships and those directed to a specific boat MMSI will only be heard by it.

bigmart, bit of a big claim! Albeit totally unfounded, everyone who has a properly licensed ship radio in the UK has known all about DSC since I started writing news letters to them back in 2001. Back in 1999 along with the MCA I was attending Boat shows trying to spread the word. In 2001 it became illegal to sell non DSC VHFs in the UK in the same year the VHF Restricted Exam was replaced with the Short Range Operators certificate. I think that to try and blame the Administration for a ¡§head in the sand¡¨ approach from the pleasure boating fraternity! In the words of Stan Laurel ¡§You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead¡¨

cliff, close enough ļ

JohnL, At the moment, pleasure craft fitted with DSC are in the minority, however, with each radio purchased and each ¡§new build¡¨ chucked in they are on the increase.

Mike

<hr width=100% size=1>Bloke interested in boats who just also happens to work for Ofcom
 
Re: How many times

Yes John but that was rather my point... Its a rather "all or nothing". I think that there are occasions when an inexperienced person may want some contact with the Coast Guard for reassurance rather than looking at the Red Button and wondering just what this may bring done upon them!

Fact is that dispite entirely embracing all things technical, some things become so cumbersome to use due to the amount of menu searching that goes into using them that they are as much a menace as a blessing.

My (new) car radio is a point in question despite spending considerable time with the manual I still cant fully use the thing! ;-) Its just too complicated to be fitted into an ordinary means of transport I guess 30 mins of one 2 one instruction would have it sorted tho!

Nick

[www]yachtsite.co.uk/fairweather[/url]

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Re: How many times

You can always call the coastguard using their MMSI number, or simply put in a voice call on Ch16 (or 67 in Solent). It's certainly not all or nothing

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
"cliff, close enough ļ"

Gee, thanks pal!

I tried to keep it simple for the "poo brains" out there.

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I take it that by lack of a mention in dispatches, that I was roughly correct! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
I believe the USA and AUS governments dont force new builds to fit DSC perhaps the public wont stand for it. I also notice that some state governments actively encourage boaters to inform CG/Volentary coast watch, of passage plans in AUS. on vhf.

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See previous threads by myself and MainlySteam (now ships cat) for detailed reasons as to why this is the case.

UK also have passage plan capabilities, see CG66 for example, and do encourage passage plans to be filed for longer trips

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
<<<I believe the USA and AUS governments dont force new builds to fit DSC>>>

My understanding of the USA situation is that it is illegal to sell non DSC VHF radios unless it is a model that was in production at the time it was made illegal to do so (if you see what I mean - I don't recall the actual year). That is clearly a sop to the manufacturers and not to the public as you suggest.

It is not a requirement to fit DSC VHF radios in Australia and nor is it so here in New Zealand. The reasons for that are not "the public will not stand for it" but for geographic and other operational reasons, which I could go into if you all want to be bored.

Despite all of the above, the majority of the VHF radios on the market are now DSC except those small ones intended for small boats. It is an ITU recommendation that nations require the fitting of DSC capable VHF radios. In NZ if you fit a DSC capable radio it is mandatory to obtain an MMSI for the boat and enter it into the radio.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
 
That is strange Brendan. 15 minutes ago your 20:18 post was not there, and now it is. Have had a funny feeling that posts were suddenly appearing here long after they were actually posted.

Must be all that cable they have to squeeze thru /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
 
I feel the need to defend myself after that blistering attack. No seriously, you're not going to tell me that when the DSC system was first discussed, that the powers that be, in the MCA, or whatever it was called then, didn't consider it's value to Commercial Shipping & assume that if it was good for the big boys then the little pleasure boaties would follow suit without a whimper.

To some degree you're preaching to the converted. I've done all the relevant courses & finally bought the equipment.

Whatever you say it must be understood that DSC is, for the pleasure boater, less than ideal. For commercial shipping & the Coasguard it means a reduction in manpower is available, but us pleasure boaters also pay the MCA's Wages & they seem to take little heed of our needs. I could site examples of MCA inspectors demanding that VHF Handhelds be carried on 50 Foot Sail Training vessels for communication between Bridge & foredeck. Now there's a situation that is ripe for mistakes to be made & a loud voice dont require batteries.

Professional Mariners often have little comprehension of the problems the small boater has to endure. Lets face Raggies & Stinkies have enough problems understaning each others point of view.

There does seem to be an attitude from the so called professional bodies that pleasure boaters are a pain they have to endure. Perhaps they should remember who is paying their salaries.

Martin

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Personally I think you've missed my point BUT you are not forced to fit the system! If you want go on using an out of date radio with a shrinking audience to your calls you can. My point is if you want to use a radio that only passably does the job now and in a couple of years will not, what is the point of carrying it.

The US obviously encourages vessels to fit DSC as the first link will show you, Australia doesn't as it is only a Sea Area A3 so there is no point for the domestic pleasure craft. The situation in NZ is a little unclear to me as their CG seems to be a registered charity, I'm sure other Forum mebers can tell if they encourage its use or not.
1) http://www.uscg.mil/rescue21/links/mmsi.htm and
2) http://www.amsa.gov.au/search_and_r...ns/maritime_mobile_service_identity/index.asp


<hr width=100% size=1>Bloke interested in boats who just also happens to work for Ofcom
 
Hardly blistering :)

Well they would expect us to follow suite wouldn't they! We are allowed to join in with this service which is designed and operated for Commercial Shipping. Maybe it's a case of we don't realise where we stand in the pecking order.

There is also a point here that needs to be reiterated, this was implemented World-wide by the IMO and the ITU, the old "political sabre rattling" about it helps to cut jobs in UK should be laid to rest.

AND the British Tax Payer pays the MCA's wages not pleasure boaters, if I wasn't into boating I would still be paying its wages. You will ONLY be able to make such a claim if/when it starts charging you directly for its services and it is no longer funded by the Treasury a bit like RA used to be.



<hr width=100% size=1>Bloke interested in boats who just also happens to work for Ofcom
 
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