Confused about navigation lights......

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Alskade

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Hello all

First time caller here :-)

Can someone clear something up for me please. I have a 28ft boat. What is the bare bones navigation lights it needs to sail at night - I'm not talking ideal and appropriate because I want to be safe, but I'm talking bare bones?

The reason I am confused is that some sites state that you need to show, on a boat less than x metres, the tricolour mast lights - no steaming light or pulpit and stern lights.

What is the real facts please.

Thanks in advance.
 
The ColRegs, published in scores of boaty books and online, are clear but the formal language used tends to confuse.

Simply, to SAIL at night you/we are required to show forward, a port ( red ) light and a starboard ( green ) light, of specified brightness providing the relevant arcs of visibility ( 112.5 + 112.5° ). These may be combined in a single lantern. Additionally, a stern ( white ) light of specified brightness providing the relevant arc of visibility. ( 135° - easily looked up online ). Call these the 'low level lights'....

These MAY be combined in a single masthead 'tricolour' lantern. ( red/white/green )

Further, if motoring, the single masthead 'tricolour' light is not approved. In that event, a 'steaming' white light is required in addition to the 'low level lights' with the same arc of visibility as the port/starboard red/green lights. This further white light is - confusingly - called the 'masthead light' in the language of the Regulations. It doen not need to be at the masthead of a sailing vessel, and is usually mounted on the front of the mast, just above spreader height.

All this is easily seen by looking along the pontoons in any marina.
 
Alskade said:
Hello all

First time caller here :-)

Can someone clear something up for me please. I have a 28ft boat. What is the bare bones navigation lights it needs to sail at night - I'm not talking ideal and appropriate because I want to be safe, but I'm talking bare bones?

The reason I am confused is that some sites state that you need to show, on a boat less than x metres, the tricolour mast lights - no steaming light or pulpit and stern lights.

What is the real facts please

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

You must surely know of the Colregs . (The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea). I would expect you to own a copy! Your questions are all answered in there in simple language. If you don't own a copy order one from the RYA now.



On line the best place to find the latest and up to date version, complete with the relevant appendices, is probably on the Coastguard website http://www.collisionregs.com/MSN1781.pdf

The minimum you need under sail is either a tricolour, or port and starboard side lights and a stern light ( The P&S may be combined into a single "bicolour)

Under power you need P&S ( which may be combined) a stern light and a forward facing white "masthed" light ( colloquially known as a "steaming" light). The stern light and the "steaming" light maybe combined into a single all-round white light

This diagram may help you to understand . It shows the alternative legal combinations for vessels up to 12 m

2dqrsxc.jpg


I also have to mention that vessels under 7 m with max speed of 7 knots may exhibit just an all-round white , or some irritating, pedantic, Scottish Open University lecturer formerly known as Ubergeekian, and Doctor Megaphone on BBC TV for the under fives, will.

Here is another more pictorial representation ( not mine) but note the "either" on the second diagram for sailboats ( either tricolour or bicolour and stern lights)

2s6nfyr.jpg
 
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Alskade said:
What is the real facts please.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forum.
zoidberg said:
The ColRegs, published in scores of boaty books and online, are clear but the formal language used tends to confuse.

Simply, to SAIL at night you/we are required to show forward, a port ( red ) light and a starboard ( green ) light, of specified brightness providing the relevant arcs of visibility ( 112.5 + 112.5° ). These may be combined in a single lantern. Additionally, a stern ( white ) light of specified brightness providing the relevant arc of visibility. ( 135° - easily looked up online ). Call these the 'low level lights'....

These MAY be combined in a single masthead 'tricolour' lantern. ( red/white/green )

Further, if motoring, the single masthead 'tricolour' light is not approved. In that event, a 'steaming' white light is required in addition to the 'low level lights' with the same arc of visibility as the port/starboard red/green lights. This further white light is - confusingly - called the 'masthead light' in the language of the Regulations. It doen not need to be at the masthead of a sailing vessel, and is usually mounted on the front of the mast, just above spreader height.

All this is easily seen by looking along the pontoons in any marina.
Click to expand...
What zoidberg said.

You can buy some "emergency lights" like these

https://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-em...Rdw96Xx6Fejz7G07n1UTTDyaFkEwy29YaAriEEALw_wcB

Other suppliers are available.

Some people of this parish are not keen on masthead lights where other boats are about, e.g. in a mooring field, I am sure they just don't use their eyes.
 
Sandy said:
Welcome to the forum.

What zoidberg said.

You can buy some "emergency lights" like these

https://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-em...Rdw96Xx6Fejz7G07n1UTTDyaFkEwy29YaAriEEALw_wcB

Other suppliers are available.

Some people of this parish are not keen on masthead lights where other boats are about, e.g. in a mooring field, I am sure they just don't use their eyes.
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Realistically, the masthead light that some of us don't like is when it's used as an anchor light. Quite why the Col Regs refer to a masthead light (for under power), when there is no requirement for it to be at the masthead, is anybody's guess. :rolleyes:
 
VicS said:
Under power a masthead light, as defined in the Colregs rule 21(a) is obligatory
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Does the word 'Masthead' cover a FWD facing light on the front of the mast, above the 'side lights', along with a separate stern light, rather than a light specifically at the head/top of the mast, or have I misunderstood, and need to do a bit of wiring?
Edit: Apologies Vic, I've just checked your very useful drawing....!:o
 
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jamie N said:
Does the word 'Masthead' cover a FWD facing light on the front of the mast, above the 'side lights', along with a separate stern light, rather than a light specifically at the head/top of the mast, or have I misunderstood, and need to do a bit of wiring?
Edit: Apologies Vic, I've just checked your very useful drawing....!:o
Click to expand...

From the aforementioned Colregs

Rule 21
Definitions
(a) “Masthead light” means a white light placed over the fore and aft centreline of the vessel showing
an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 225 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from
right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on either side of the vessel.
Click to expand...

See also Annex 1 (2) regarding the height/ vertical spacing
 
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prv said:
Yes, in Colregs terms that is what a Masthead Light is.

Pete
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Often, as on my boat, referred to and labelled as a 'steaming light'. This may not be correct but avoids confusion in general use. It also creates the whimsical thought that one's propulsion is the result of having stoked the boilers.
 
VicS said:
Under power a masthead light, as defined in the Colregs rule 21(a) is obligatory
Click to expand...
Sandy said:
No its not.

A steaming light is obligatory not a masthead tricolour.
Click to expand...

Sandy, you will confuse the OP. The Masthead light as defined in Rule 21a is what you (and many others) call a steaming light, so although you think you are disagreeing with VicS you are actually saying the same thing.

As others have said, what the Colregs call a masthead light is these days not actually at the top of the mast. I think this dates from the time when the pole which held the sails up was made up of (at least) two parts, the lower one being the mast and the one above that being the topmast, so the masthead light was only about two-thirds up the combined mast/topmast.
 
alan_d said:
As others have said, what the Colregs call a masthead light is these days not actually at the top of the mast. I think this dates from the time when the pole which held the sails up was made up of (at least) two parts, the lower one being the mast and the one above that being the topmast, so the masthead light was only about two-thirds up the combined mast/topmast.
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We’re both just speculating, but I tend to disagree on the origin.

Remember that Colregs were and are not written for our little yachts, they’re written primarily for merchant shipping. And in the early part of the 20th century when I think they first took recognisable modern form, you got sailing ships and steamships but not really much in the way of ships with both sail and power (the long-distance square-riggers on the grain and nitrate runs would take a tug when they wanted mechanical assistance near port).

The position of the masthead lights (remember, ships have two) on a motor ship are in the vicinity of the mastheads - at least on the foremast of a modern ship, they don’t necessarily have much of a mast aft but just a tall superstructure instead. Older ships would have had two masts, though. “Masthead lights” is a perfectly reasonable name there. The position these lights might have taken on the taller masts of a sailing ship was immaterial, because sailing ships of the day didn’t carry them, just the two oil-burning sidelights on the break of the fo’c’sle either side, and a stern light aft.

Once the name is established, it becomes difficult to change in a text that has to be agreed by dozens of countries, without very good reason indeed.

Pete
 
VicS said:
You must surely know of the Colregs . (The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea). I would expect you to own a copy! Your questions are all answered in there in simple language. If you don't own a copy order one from the RYA now.

Dear VicS

You have provided some great information and support to the OP but I don’t think it is natural to assume that people know or have heard of Colregs or even own a copy. There are no entry rules to boat ownership that must be passed and therefore I don’t think we could expect someone new to boating to own a copy of colregs even if they have bought a boat.

I think it is laudable that the OP clearly wants to ‘do the right thing’ I also think it is great that you have provided clear guidance which is helpful but this forum Surely exists to encourage and help so let’s focus on encouraging people to ask questions, however basic and provide our best advice (as you have done) without perhaps unintentionally scaring people into not asking.
Click to expand...
 
Homer J said:
VicS said:
You must surely know of the Colregs . (The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea). I would expect you to own a copy! Your questions are all answered in there in simple language. If you don't own a copy order one from the RYA now.

Dear VicS

You have provided some great information and support to the OP but I don’t think it is natural to assume that people know or have heard of Colregs or even own a copy. There are no entry rules to boat ownership that must be passed and therefore I don’t think we could expect someone new to boating to own a copy of colregs even if they have bought a boat.

I think it is laudable that the OP clearly wants to ‘do the right thing’ I also think it is great that you have provided clear guidance which is helpful but this forum Surely exists to encourage and help so let’s focus on encouraging people to ask questions, however basic and provide our best advice (as you have done) without perhaps unintentionally scaring people into not asking.
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With all due respects, I think Vic S was definitely right to advise the OP to go & buy a copy of the Colregs,( the RYA printed ones) whether the Op is new to sailing or not.
So stating the obvious has to be done, - how else could he do it?
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Homer J said:
With all due respects, I think Vic S was definitely right to advise the OP to go & buy a copy of the Colregs,( the RYA printed ones) whether the Op is new to sailing or not.
So stating the obvious has to be done, - how else could he do it?
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Trouble is when he goes into a chandlery and asks for a masthead light. What is he going to come out with?

While I agree that regulations have "challenging" language, it is the world of the day job (not COLREGS), I prefer using everyday terms to get the message across.
 
Daydream believer said:
With all due respects, I think Vic S was definitely right to advise the OP to go & buy a copy of the Colregs,( the RYA printed ones) whether the Op is new to sailing or not.
So stating the obvious has to be done, - how else could he do it?
Click to expand...

I think that it is the sentence culminating in an exclamation mark which Homer is regarding as being rather strident in the context of a first time poster.

I don't have a particular view although I do avoid using exclamation marks other than in a humorous context for this very reason.

Richard
 
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Sandy said:
Trouble is when he goes into a chandlery and asks for a masthead light. What is he going to come out with?

While I agree that regulations have "challenging" language, it is the world of the day job (not COLREGS), I prefer using everyday terms to get the message across.
Click to expand...

If was me, the simple answer is a litre of antifoul & some shackles:encouragement:

But there is a point where one can only lead a horse to water, but I think that we should credit the Op with a bit more savvy
 
How difficult is it to understand this?
RULE 21 Definitions
(a) “Masthead light” means a white light placed over the fore and aft centerline of the vessel showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 225 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on either side of the vessel.
(b) “Sidelights” means a green light on the starboard side and a red light on the port side each showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 112.5 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on its respective side. In a vessel of less than 20 meters in length the sidelights may be combined in one lantern carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel.
(c) “Sternlight” means a white light placed as nearly as practicable at the stern showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 135 degrees and so fixed as to show the light 67.5 degrees from right aft on each side of the vessel.
(d) “Towing light” means a yellow light having the same characteristics as the “sternlight” defined in paragraph (c) of this Rule.
(e) “All-round light” means a light showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 360 degrees.
(f) “Flashing light” means a light flashing at regular intervals at a frequency of 120 flashes or more per minute.
Click to expand...
 
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