Badger
Member
Yes, I watched the old bird coming into Heathrow........... Joan Collins.
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Concorde
- Thread starter david_e
- Start date
StephenSails
Active member
Re: Concorde a sad moment for who?.
I don't sympathise with many people who live under flight paths, only the people who lived there before the flight path. There was a guy down my road who moved next door to our local boat yard after the yard has been running for 50 years and shut it down because of the noise! I think that is so wrong, as did everyone but him and the council.
It did not fail on all scores, you only have to read and look around to see how popular she is with the public and the pilots, she is apparently still profitable if it was not run by BA.
I think you should cheer up and be proud of such a aviation masterpiece
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.yachtinguniverse.com
I don't sympathise with many people who live under flight paths, only the people who lived there before the flight path. There was a guy down my road who moved next door to our local boat yard after the yard has been running for 50 years and shut it down because of the noise! I think that is so wrong, as did everyone but him and the council.
It did not fail on all scores, you only have to read and look around to see how popular she is with the public and the pilots, she is apparently still profitable if it was not run by BA.
I think you should cheer up and be proud of such a aviation masterpiece
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.yachtinguniverse.com
Sybarite
Well-known member
Re: Concorde a sad moment for who?.
<< Cost.Fail.the thing never got back what it cost.Est equiv of 3000 quid for every taxpayer in UK.Never mind France.>>
What is cost in this case? There is an investment in technology which, if divided by the number of planes built will obviously never be recuperated but does that mean to say that this technology is lost? A rational decision now would be to ask if current operating revenue is sufficient to cover current operating costs - forgetting depreciation which is only a bookkeeping entry. (If the plane is taken out of operations any remaining balance sheet cost would have to be written out of the books anyway.)
If the answer is no, then the decision to stop is justified - unless the plane could be sold / given to somebody else who could operate them at a profit (Virgin ??).
I remember that the UK had a fantastic plane in the 60's: the TSR-2 which was the most advanced plane in the world at the time: Mach 1.5, 2000 mile operating range bomber designed to replace the Canberras.
Healy killed the programme for budgeting reasons and so, ever since, we have had to make do with inferior aircraft often purchased from abroad. Whatever the cost of the TSR-2, it was cost which circulated within our own economy and therefore, one could argue, was value which was not lost to the nation, whereas once American bombers were used this was a net outflow of currency. With the stopping of the programme there was a dispersion of competencies which never again came together.
http://members.aol.com/nicholash1/tsr2.htm
IMHO of course.
John
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<< Cost.Fail.the thing never got back what it cost.Est equiv of 3000 quid for every taxpayer in UK.Never mind France.>>
What is cost in this case? There is an investment in technology which, if divided by the number of planes built will obviously never be recuperated but does that mean to say that this technology is lost? A rational decision now would be to ask if current operating revenue is sufficient to cover current operating costs - forgetting depreciation which is only a bookkeeping entry. (If the plane is taken out of operations any remaining balance sheet cost would have to be written out of the books anyway.)
If the answer is no, then the decision to stop is justified - unless the plane could be sold / given to somebody else who could operate them at a profit (Virgin ??).
I remember that the UK had a fantastic plane in the 60's: the TSR-2 which was the most advanced plane in the world at the time: Mach 1.5, 2000 mile operating range bomber designed to replace the Canberras.
Healy killed the programme for budgeting reasons and so, ever since, we have had to make do with inferior aircraft often purchased from abroad. Whatever the cost of the TSR-2, it was cost which circulated within our own economy and therefore, one could argue, was value which was not lost to the nation, whereas once American bombers were used this was a net outflow of currency. With the stopping of the programme there was a dispersion of competencies which never again came together.
http://members.aol.com/nicholash1/tsr2.htm
IMHO of course.
John
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Jeremy_W
New member
Re: Concorde a sad moment for who?.
>>>Healy (sic) killed the programme for budgeting reasons and so, ever since, we have had to make do with inferior aircraft often purchased from abroad. Whatever the cost of the TSR-2
But, to be fair, Healey saved the Harrier which won us the Falklands War. So his intervention against the advice of his civil servants, saved Margaret Thatcher twenty years later.
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>>>Healy (sic) killed the programme for budgeting reasons and so, ever since, we have had to make do with inferior aircraft often purchased from abroad. Whatever the cost of the TSR-2
But, to be fair, Healey saved the Harrier which won us the Falklands War. So his intervention against the advice of his civil servants, saved Margaret Thatcher twenty years later.
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tome
New member
Re: Concorde a sad moment for who?.
Combes Boatyard at Bosham Hoe, what a travesty. Kept a boat in a mud-berth there for many years and could never understand how this came to be. I seem to recall it started with a ban on power tools at week-ends and deteriorated from there.
I harbour a suspicion that it was 'let go' as it was worth more as a development plot than a boatyard.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.btconnect.com/Amaya/Amaya_Web1.htm>Cherbourg Data site</A>
Combes Boatyard at Bosham Hoe, what a travesty. Kept a boat in a mud-berth there for many years and could never understand how this came to be. I seem to recall it started with a ban on power tools at week-ends and deteriorated from there.
I harbour a suspicion that it was 'let go' as it was worth more as a development plot than a boatyard.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.btconnect.com/Amaya/Amaya_Web1.htm>Cherbourg Data site</A>
Fill
New member
We'll miss her. Our very first channel crossing and we were about half way across near EC2 and there's 2 massive bangs. I shot into the cockpit like a startled rabbit, we both went mad trying to see the warship that had fired 2 six inch guns near us, frantically consulted the chart again to see if we were in an exercise zone, turned on the radar and did a max distance scan ... and nothing.
I wondered if the French navy had got one of those submarines that had an enormous gun mounted on it.
We got into Cherbourg and the kind people on the boat next door insisted we have a drink with them to celebrate our first X channel and as we told them how the trip had been and mentioned the bangs they told us it was Concorde going Supersonic.
Now we'll never have the chance to wind up crews about the phantom pirate who was hung at the yardarm and doom and disaster awaits those who hear him firing his last cannons in defiance of the Royal Navy.
Fill
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I wondered if the French navy had got one of those submarines that had an enormous gun mounted on it.
We got into Cherbourg and the kind people on the boat next door insisted we have a drink with them to celebrate our first X channel and as we told them how the trip had been and mentioned the bangs they told us it was Concorde going Supersonic.
Now we'll never have the chance to wind up crews about the phantom pirate who was hung at the yardarm and doom and disaster awaits those who hear him firing his last cannons in defiance of the Royal Navy.
Fill
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Davy_S
Well-known member
Many years ago I used to travel down to Plymouth to go wreck fishing and sometimes across to Guernsey, the falklands war had kicked off and we were about sixty miles off Plymouth surrounded by navy vessels. We heard two loud bangs and everyone exept the skipper hit the decks, we all thought the navy had fired near us, felt foolish when skipper explained it was concord. Not interested if it made or lost money, but there is no doubt IMHO it is one of the most stunning looking planes ever, a great shame to see it go.
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penfold
Well-known member
Re: Concorde a sad moment for who?.
If you want somebody to blame for the crappy state of the british aviation industry, I suggest you take a potshot at Duncan Sandys first; his 1957 Defence White Paper reads like a cross between Dan Dare and Private Eye. This man decided that the RAF wouldn't need pilots by the mid 1970s because the planes/missiles would control themselves!/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif
I've just finished reading Healey's Autobiog, and he says that he and his French counterpart tried several times to bin Concorde, but Wilson and De Gaulle wanted to keep it.
The bizarre aspect of the TSR2 thing was that BAC/HawkerSiddeley had already tooled up for the airframe; the whole thing was ready to roll once they stopped faffing with the control systems, which was a whole lot more than could be said for the F111 at the time. The RAF would have been whizzing around in them by mid 1970 (only 4 years late on a 6 year program!), whereas they then had to twiddle their thumbs, make do with Vulcans and Hunters until Tornado appeared(several years late also).
cheers,
david
<hr width=100% size=1>This candidate has low personal standards, and continually fails to meet them.
If you want somebody to blame for the crappy state of the british aviation industry, I suggest you take a potshot at Duncan Sandys first; his 1957 Defence White Paper reads like a cross between Dan Dare and Private Eye. This man decided that the RAF wouldn't need pilots by the mid 1970s because the planes/missiles would control themselves!/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif
I've just finished reading Healey's Autobiog, and he says that he and his French counterpart tried several times to bin Concorde, but Wilson and De Gaulle wanted to keep it.
The bizarre aspect of the TSR2 thing was that BAC/HawkerSiddeley had already tooled up for the airframe; the whole thing was ready to roll once they stopped faffing with the control systems, which was a whole lot more than could be said for the F111 at the time. The RAF would have been whizzing around in them by mid 1970 (only 4 years late on a 6 year program!), whereas they then had to twiddle their thumbs, make do with Vulcans and Hunters until Tornado appeared(several years late also).
cheers,
david
<hr width=100% size=1>This candidate has low personal standards, and continually fails to meet them.
GaryE
New member
Back on the subject of engines:-
There are lots of "Ollys" still about. Many used as generator sets, on land and offshore. There are two gen sets somewhere in Trinidad, and one in downtown Miami. Just a shame they don't make the sonic boom to keep those good folks awake!
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There are lots of "Ollys" still about. Many used as generator sets, on land and offshore. There are two gen sets somewhere in Trinidad, and one in downtown Miami. Just a shame they don't make the sonic boom to keep those good folks awake!
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B
bob_tyler
Guest
Re: Concorde a sad moment for who?.
"....a guy down my road who moved next door to our local boat yard after the yard has been running for 50 years and shut it down because of the noise! "
I presume you are referring to that great, late, yard, Burnes in Bosham.
I used to live in Twickenham and under the takeoff path. I felt that, however much the noise, I had no right at all to complain as I moved there after Heathrow had opened.
My windows used to shake when Concorde took off, it was wonderful! I always dashed outside on clear days to watch its graceful, curving path.
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"....a guy down my road who moved next door to our local boat yard after the yard has been running for 50 years and shut it down because of the noise! "
I presume you are referring to that great, late, yard, Burnes in Bosham.
I used to live in Twickenham and under the takeoff path. I felt that, however much the noise, I had no right at all to complain as I moved there after Heathrow had opened.
My windows used to shake when Concorde took off, it was wonderful! I always dashed outside on clear days to watch its graceful, curving path.
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StephenSails
Active member
Re: Concorde a sad moment for who?.
I am indeed referring to the sad demise of Coombes Boat Yard which still lies dormant and derelict to this day. I think the certain neighbour who caused the stink just became such a pain that as soon as power tools where banned at weekends and then after 5.00pm in the week, then they banned them from the mud berths the yard became unviable. But any suggestion of the yard being more profitable as a property development might not be the case as it is still sitting empty I speak.
Recently the person who caused all the problems put in planning permission for a boat shed and slipway in his garden for commercial purposes!
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.yachtinguniverse.com
I am indeed referring to the sad demise of Coombes Boat Yard which still lies dormant and derelict to this day. I think the certain neighbour who caused the stink just became such a pain that as soon as power tools where banned at weekends and then after 5.00pm in the week, then they banned them from the mud berths the yard became unviable. But any suggestion of the yard being more profitable as a property development might not be the case as it is still sitting empty I speak.
Recently the person who caused all the problems put in planning permission for a boat shed and slipway in his garden for commercial purposes!
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.yachtinguniverse.com
alec
New member
Proves that Long Keelers can shift though !
And just like long keeled yachts, lousy to try and park !
Frank Whittle did say that it would prove to be a loser though.
Six thousand quid for a ride ? I would rather have a week's ride on something as lovely as this :-
http://www.sy-ranger/
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And just like long keeled yachts, lousy to try and park !
Frank Whittle did say that it would prove to be a loser though.
Six thousand quid for a ride ? I would rather have a week's ride on something as lovely as this :-
http://www.sy-ranger/
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oldharry
Well-known member
A sad day indeed - never came anywhere near to flying in her though I knew a man who did!
My memory of her was on the early days of testing and flight training from RAF Brize Norton. we lived nearby, and 002 was a regular sight coming over every 20 minutes as they did 'bump circuits' as part of training and developement. They would circle round Brize, touching down each circuit without actually stopping.
Went off with the boys quite regularly to stand at the end of the runway and watch her come over at around 100 ft altitude with her ollies at full chat as she climbed out - and 002 didn't have the 'silencing' configuration of the commercial models.
the sound was just stupendous! I have never heard anything like it before or since. (Unles it was the Vulcan showing off to the Navy over Portland in the 70s coming in low over the harbour then standing on its tail to get away - fast!) Been near quite a few big jets since. But 002s ollies at Brize were in a class of their own....!!!
Those of you who lived under her flightpath in commercial service never experienced the raw power of Concordes Ollies in all their unsilenced glory - I promise you!
A sad day.
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My memory of her was on the early days of testing and flight training from RAF Brize Norton. we lived nearby, and 002 was a regular sight coming over every 20 minutes as they did 'bump circuits' as part of training and developement. They would circle round Brize, touching down each circuit without actually stopping.
Went off with the boys quite regularly to stand at the end of the runway and watch her come over at around 100 ft altitude with her ollies at full chat as she climbed out - and 002 didn't have the 'silencing' configuration of the commercial models.
the sound was just stupendous! I have never heard anything like it before or since. (Unles it was the Vulcan showing off to the Navy over Portland in the 70s coming in low over the harbour then standing on its tail to get away - fast!) Been near quite a few big jets since. But 002s ollies at Brize were in a class of their own....!!!
Those of you who lived under her flightpath in commercial service never experienced the raw power of Concordes Ollies in all their unsilenced glory - I promise you!
A sad day.
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alec
New member
BrendanS
Well-known member
Ah! Indeed. My claim to fame was that I flew on Concorde 38 times. 4 came later in life, but as an ATC cadet we were on Easter Camp at Brize Norton, and I won a raffle to fly on her.
34 'circuit bumps'
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34 'circuit bumps'
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Heckler
Active member
wish i could have but
any way, working in angola 28 days on 28 off, flying UTA to paris and then on wards, tickets could be bought locally by bona fide expat companies using local currency, american engineer working with us in angola realised that the company used the local currency at par ie not black market rate, official rate was something daft like 2 to 1 but black was like 10 zillion to one, a bit of trading ends up with said engineer holding on to bags of angolan kwanzas which he then got his mate in travel to buy thru UTA a ticket on concord from paris to new york using said bags of black market kwanzas.
we all thought what a cunning stunt and gleefully followed progress as we all disembarked at charles de gaulle, huh, who said frogs are thick, disdainful look at air france desk and the gallic look of do you really think we are so stupid as to take a bunch of mickey mouse money to fly you on our hi priced bird? non and non again, said engineer had to go back to biz class on the slow old regular flight.
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
any way, working in angola 28 days on 28 off, flying UTA to paris and then on wards, tickets could be bought locally by bona fide expat companies using local currency, american engineer working with us in angola realised that the company used the local currency at par ie not black market rate, official rate was something daft like 2 to 1 but black was like 10 zillion to one, a bit of trading ends up with said engineer holding on to bags of angolan kwanzas which he then got his mate in travel to buy thru UTA a ticket on concord from paris to new york using said bags of black market kwanzas.
we all thought what a cunning stunt and gleefully followed progress as we all disembarked at charles de gaulle, huh, who said frogs are thick, disdainful look at air france desk and the gallic look of do you really think we are so stupid as to take a bunch of mickey mouse money to fly you on our hi priced bird? non and non again, said engineer had to go back to biz class on the slow old regular flight.
stu
<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.beneteau-owners-association.org.uk
MainlySteam
New member
Re: Concorde a sad moment for who?.
<<<The Amercans went for the 747 we went for the Concorde.Tell you anything?>>>
Sorry Oldgit that is not a sustainable argument. The Americans did not go for the 747. It was a case of an aircraft makers survival and they had to choose a plane which they hoped (and turned out to be, with the help of a few DC10 crashes) would be the volume production aircraft of choice. Boeing were in a great deal of strife and their future was bleak - they bet the whole pot on the 747 and fortunately for them it proved to be the volume production aircraft that made the grade. It was never a choice between supersonic and jumbo, supersonic was always going to be a low volume production aircraft and was therefore unaffordable to Boeing in its then situation.
Boeing is now seriously challenged by Airbus, and the Concorde must be regarded as an important key in the development of a respected European civilian aircraft manufacturing industry (although I suspect the EU taxpayers are still helping supply cheap aircraft to the rest of us).
John
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<<<The Amercans went for the 747 we went for the Concorde.Tell you anything?>>>
Sorry Oldgit that is not a sustainable argument. The Americans did not go for the 747. It was a case of an aircraft makers survival and they had to choose a plane which they hoped (and turned out to be, with the help of a few DC10 crashes) would be the volume production aircraft of choice. Boeing were in a great deal of strife and their future was bleak - they bet the whole pot on the 747 and fortunately for them it proved to be the volume production aircraft that made the grade. It was never a choice between supersonic and jumbo, supersonic was always going to be a low volume production aircraft and was therefore unaffordable to Boeing in its then situation.
Boeing is now seriously challenged by Airbus, and the Concorde must be regarded as an important key in the development of a respected European civilian aircraft manufacturing industry (although I suspect the EU taxpayers are still helping supply cheap aircraft to the rest of us).
John
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oldharry
Well-known member
Oh so it was you, was it?
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BrendanS
Well-known member
There must have been a huge number of fortunates. They filled the plane with a daily raffle open to all of Brize Norton for weeks. Certainly made up for the fact that my tent was next to the runway.
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Cutter
Active member
Arrived in the BA lounge in time to see all three touchdown and then roll up and stop outside the window. Spontaneous applause and more than a few damp eyes. Stuffed the flight schedules but that didn't matter on this occasion. The six hour wait getting back from Dublin was a different matter!
Hope to see her flying again if only at shows
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Hope to see her flying again if only at shows
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