Complete newbie wanting ICC...

[bitbaltic]

people who start to sail in small boats are nearly always better sailors than those who start in big boats and never sail small boats.

this opinion is nearly always held by people who started in small boats and therefore have no lived experience by which to evaluate the alternative. As such it seems hard to establish that it’s not a fallacy.

 

[capnsensible]

this opinion is nearly always held by people who started in small boats and therefore have no lived experience by which to evaluate the alternative. As such it seems hard to establish that it’s not a fallacy.

I've been lucky to have coached loadsa people in sailing. My observation based on that is those who learnt in dinghies are definitely better at sailing. So I don't think it's a fallacy.

A Portugese chap I prepped for his Yachtmaster exam was an Olympic catamaran sailor. My biggest problem was getting him to sail slowly.

 

[Biggles Wader]

People who started in dinghies are more likely to have started young so will have picked up the basics early and developed their skills over time. Like me they will probably have developed plenty of bad habits too but will be better at covering them up.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The Day Skipper course is actually designed for those that have some sailing experience. Recommended is 100nm, 5 days at sea and 4 hours night sailing. Some do try and run before they walk but it's rarely successful.

Bearing in mind the chap is a complete noob, this must be the way to go. Any sailing must be good though, even doing a dinghy course would be valuable.

 

[Advent3207]

Thanks for all these responses, as a complete novice all this input is greatly appreciated.
I didnt realise you dont have to do the Competent Crew qualification. Maybe if I read enough books, sail myself and go out with someone else I may not need to do it.

I suppose, if I buy this boat tomorrow I can try my hand at sailing, if all else fails it has an outboard!

 

[Advent3207]

Bearing in mind the chap is a complete noob, this must be the way to go. Any sailing must be good though, even doing a dinghy course would be valuable.

When I say Im an absolute novice, I have used speedboats in the past and my grandfather did own a canal boatyard/marina so I have grown up with boats and the terminology. Its just the actual sail part I know next to nothing about.
And yes, I agree the dinghy course must be very useful.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

When I say Im an absolute novice, I have used speedboats in the past and my grandfather did own a canal boatyard/marina so I have grown up with boats and the terminology. Its just the actual sail part I know next to nothing about

Sure. The sailing was what I was meaning, no disrespect intended. We were all noobs once. And I daresay you’re familiar enough with outboards!

 

[Advent3207]

Sure. The sailing was what I was meaning, no disrespect intended. We were all noobs once. And I daresay you’re familiar enough with outboards!

Hey, no disrespect taken what so ever, thankyou for input.

 

[coveman]

If you look on the RYA website they give you useful information on the syllabus for the various courses that may give you an indication of which one would fit your experience level.

 

[Adios]

Is it a good guess that you are more like time rich and money poor than the reverse? If you have time to spend on the boat this summer the way I learnt was in small boats like the one you're clearly going to buy tomorrow ? , sitting at anchor in the cockpit/cabin soaking up the atmosphere and feeling the tide while reading all about it and then putting it into action. I was fortunate enough to be skint but with the whole summers free for a few years (university). Many chandleries have a big pile of used practical boat owner and yachting monthly mags for sale for a small donation to RNLI. They have articles on all aspects of sailing practice. If you're in a low tech boat maybe look for the older mags more from the period of your boat. I then did an ICC and passed without bother on what I'd learnt and practiced over a few summers. Most blissful period of my life. Enjoy!

I was curious how people learnt and asked the other day, surprisingly few here did the RYA route to start off How did you learn to be such a safe and capable sailor? | YBW Forum There's no doubt it would be valuable time spent doing the courses but maybe nothing beats being on your own boat with no one else to rely on to focus the mind and drive your enthusiasm for learning. Your natural survival instinct will hopefully keep you from overreaching beyond your capabilities as you learn.

 

[dune16]

I sailed toppers/lazers in my younger years but then had a 20 year break. Always wanted a yacht so against most advice went and purchased a brand new 38ft Jeanneau. Luckily a very kind forum member offered to teach me everything from delivery day to me feeling comfortable on my own. I then did the icc assessment and passed. I then chartered bareboat in Croatia and the med bug started. Sold the Jeanneau and bought a 44ft dufour in Spain. Never looked back. I say just go for it. Buy the small boat, learn to sail it (on a lake if you can) and then either do day skipper or straight for icc (after doing the ds online theory course)

 

[Daverw]

We went to Gibraltar to do d skipper and wife comp crew, she had never sailed but over 5 days learnt so much, warm water, sun and very easy to get to and they let us stay on board for extra night to have 2 days free to visit Gibraltar before we flew back,

RYA Sailing courses & MCA Training Courses
give them a call, english company they were very helpful to us

 

[Adios]

Another point is once you have a boat and you're out in the moorings/riverside etc you'll find no end of venerable gents tinkering with their boats only too happy to impart their wisdom. If you don't have a boat yet that door isn't quite open to you in the same way.

 

[Advent3207]

Is it a good guess that you are more like time rich and money poor than the reverse?

Haha. Not quite. If anything I dont have alot of time as I have two small children, hence the cabin boat idea for learning. - they would be coming along! I dont plan on doing much sailing in the uk, maybe a year, Im not sure. This is purely to learn so I can pass an ICC, hopefully by next year.

 

[bitbaltic]

I've been lucky to have coached loadsa people in sailing. My observation based on that is those who learnt in dinghies are definitely better at sailing. So I don't think it's a fallacy.

if you genuinely agreed with yourself I think you’d say how you yourself started in addition to your observational opinion. As you don’t do so, I venture that you are less confident in your opinion (on the fallacy, not the sailing) than you believe yourself to be.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Haha. Not quite. If anything I dont have alot of time as I have two small children, hence the cabin boat idea for learning. - they would be coming along! I dont plan on doing much sailing in the uk, maybe a year, Im not sure. This is purely to learn so I can pass an ICC, hopefully by next year.

If you want fast track go to a school for CC them about DS and what you need to do to get the skills / experience in-between the two levels. It's not my experience I learned 60 years ago on an old clinker built dinghy and converted ships lifeboat through the seat of my pants on the river Orwell but it's a bit different now, but when I decided to buy a boat of my own after years of sailing and racing other peoples boats I got my ex do do what I have suggested and she never looked back.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

if you genuinely agreed with yourself I think you’d say how you yourself started in addition to your observational opinion. As you don’t do so, I venture that you are less confident in your opinion (on the fallacy, not the sailing) than you believe yourself to be.

Whilst I may appear to have started out in a dinghy I venture I learned very little that was transferable to a modern largish sailing boat even though that was many years ago so I agree with you, it might make you a better round the cans sailor but it won't teach you much about boat handling under power or open water and tidal navigation anchoring or a host of other things.

 

[bitbaltic]

Whilst I may appear to have started out in a dinghy I venture I learned very little that was transferable to a modern largish sailing boat even though that was many years ago so I agree with you, it might make you a better round the cans sailor but it won't teach you much about boat handling under power or open water and tidal navigation anchoring or a host of other things.

I’m only playing devil’s advocate really as the view is quite common amongst dinghy sailors who move up to big boats and I do like to tweak the nose of an orthodoxy.

interestingly though I have a similar ish experience position. I sailed on a family dinghy from age 7 to about 12. I then did nothing until I bought a yacht aged 35.

I don’t consider that dinghy sailing as a child had anything to do with whatever yacht sailing skills I then acquired as it was a nearly quarter of a century earlier. But the pleasure (which I definitely remembered) was the reason for buying a yacht. Did I carry some skills over? I doubt it. But how do I actually know?

and as you say there is more to yachting than helming and tweaking.

 

[Adios]

Haha. Not quite. If anything I dont have alot of time as I have two small children, hence the cabin boat idea for learning. - they would be coming along! I dont plan on doing much sailing in the uk, maybe a year, Im not sure. This is purely to learn so I can pass an ICC, hopefully by next year.

ahhhh thats different then, no you really shouldn't take 2 small children out with sails up before you know what you're doing IMO, for a number of reasons. And if you're time poor a RYA course would be a useful kick start to set you in the right direction. At least they will teach the best practice for safety so you get that before you're tempted to bring passengers.

 

[capnsensible]

if you genuinely agreed with yourself I think you’d say how you yourself started in addition to your observational opinion. As you don’t do so, I venture that you are less confident in your opinion (on the fallacy, not the sailing) than you believe yourself to be.

I'm totally confident in my opinion formed by a couple of decades as a full time sailing instructor. But carry on with your guesswork......