Compare pros & cons.

scotty123 said:
So why would the Jongert & Salar wheelhouses/cockpits not suit those hot climate situations then?
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See post#14. They do have their merits and provide shelter without needing a bimini. Other boats aimed at ocean cruisers such as Amel and the larger HRs have the same. However as I pointed out they often have small cockpits and limited external lounging area and for Med use the aft cabins (and poor reverse handling due to the long keel) make them a bit of a liability for the common stern to berthing.

Size has a big impact on the practicalities of such things as deckhouses, wheel shelters, centre cockpits etc. The bigger the boat the easier it is to avoid the compromises, but under 40' cramming these features in can be both physically restrictive and visually ungainly.
 
I helped deliver a slightly larger Jongert from the South of France through the Mesina Straits and up to Venice over 20 years ago.

A heavy displacement yacht which we motored most of the way due to a combination of poor wind angle, no wind or too much wind (45 knots up the Adriatic). Built like the proverbial out house so confidence inspiring. Sailing is ideally 60 to 120 degrees off the wind.
 
Tranona said:
See post#14. They do have their merits and provide shelter without needing a bimini. Other boats aimed at ocean cruisers such as Amel and the larger HRs have the same. However as I pointed out they often have small cockpits and limited external lounging area and for Med use the aft cabins (and poor reverse handling due to the long keel) make them a bit of a liability for the common stern to berthing.

Size has a big impact on the practicalities of such things as deckhouses, wheel shelters, centre cockpits etc. The bigger the boat the easier it is to avoid the compromises, but under 40' cramming these features in can be both physically restrictive and visually ungainly.
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From the link photo's, the Salar & Jongert both seem to have plenty of lounging room in the cockpits.
 
E39mad said:
I helped deliver a slightly larger Jongert from the South of France through the Mesina Straits and up to Venice over 20 years ago.

A heavy displacement yacht which we motored most of the way due to a combination of poor wind angle, no wind or too much wind (45 knots up the Adriatic). Built like the proverbial out house so confidence inspiring. Sailing is ideally 60 to 120 degrees off the wind.
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So presumably unaffected when lots of 'stores' taken on board, unlike lighter boats.
 
scotty123 said:
So presumably unaffected when lots of 'stores' taken on board, unlike lighter boats.
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I think you could have put a heard of elephants on it and barely see the waterline move!!

The open doghouse arrangement of the Jongert worked particularly well for passage making in the Med. Protected from the sun during the day and protected from the cooler nights. Did not spend much or any time in a marina or anchor so cannot comment on that use but there were plenty of areas for either a bimini or sun awning particularly over the mizzen mast.
 
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E39mad said:
I think you could have put a heard of elephants on it and barely see the waterline move!!
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Yup, Archimedes gave these older vessels a special dispensation from his principle.

A decent bloke if you think about it.
 
dom said:
Never said they were, just that the basic principles of physics still apply!
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Not sure big heavy old boats sail any slower than big heavy modern boats, none of them are much affected by 'loading', as opposed to lightweight modern boats, which seem to slow considerably even if an extra cornish pasty is taken onboard.;)
 
I've sailed on a friends ferro Endurance 37 a number of times. Very solid feel and reassuring on long offshore passages providing there is plenty of breeze.
Not so good for the pure joy of sailing, a bit like sailing an island, but that's not what they were designed for.
 
Dan Tribe said:
I've sailed on a friends ferro Endurance 37 a number of times. Very solid feel and reassuring on long offshore passages providing there is plenty of breeze.
Not so good for the pure joy of sailing, a bit like sailing an island, but that's not what they were designed for.
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Are E 37 ferro's any heavier than GRP?
 
scotty123 said:
Are E 37 ferro's any heavier than GRP?
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Don't know for sure but I would imagine so.
My friend fitted his one out himself from a Windboats hull and, like many home finished boats they tend to be a bit heavier than production ones.
The owners tend to make things a bit stronger, "just to be sure"
I helped him bring her back from Germany, the crane driver at Fehman Island commented that she was heavier than she looked.
The final leg from Borkum to Burnham took a long time but was very comfortable.
 
geem said:
I doubt it. More like concrete content....... it was actually a pretty nice boat. You couldnt tell it was concrete. It must have been painfully slow as the sail area wasnt great
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Since the OP Endurance 37 isn't concrete, how would it perform against the Salar 40 contender. The hull shapes/displacements are similar, so would the more flush deck E37 be preferable to the S40 when offshore?
 
scotty123 said:
Since the OP Endurance 37 isn't concrete, how would it perform against the Salar 40 contender. The hull shapes/displacements are similar, so would the more flush deck E37 be preferable to the S40 when offshore?
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There are some who prefer a flush deck boat offshore, but given so few are built in that way and most boats that go offshore have raised coachroofs suggests that it really does not matter.

BTW, how are you defining "performance"?
 
Tranona said:
There are some who prefer a flush deck boat offshore, but given so few are built in that way and most boats that go offshore have raised coachroofs suggests that it really does not matter.

BTW, how are you defining "performance"?
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How each perform in the varying conditions encountered offshore, for example.
Big sea, big wind, comfort, safety, etc.
 
scotty123 said:
How each perform in the varying conditions encountered offshore, for example.
Big sea, big wind, comfort, safety, etc.
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You will get as many answers as there are respondents if only because the number of people who have sailed even one of them in such conditions is limited by the tiny number of each that exist and those who have sailed more than one type vanishingly small.

It really is a non-question that nobody can answer with any authority. The boats were (mostly) designed for cruising in all weathers - or even if not specifically aimed at that kind of use were found to be suitable. That can be said of a huge number of different designs, most of which are not of the long keeled, heavy displacement types. However the latter have their adherents who are prepared to sacrifice fast passage times and voluminous hulls for comfortable motion and rugged build. So if that is what you are looking for then any of the boats you mention will do the job, although having said that apart from the basic hull forms (and even there the Moody is different being fin and skeg) all 4 are very different in other respects.

Look around at the boats people use for ocean sailing and you will see that people choose an enormous range of different types and complete their passages successfully. Choice is very personal, so I suggest you buy a boat you like and feel comfortable with.

It is often said that success in ocean cruising is primarily a function of crew competence in planning and executing rather than choice of boat. Ideally one should gain some experience before committing to a particular boat, but this is often not practical so you have to depend in part on learning from what others have done.

Judging by the price range you seem to be looking at you will be limited to other peoples' cast offs - that is older used boats. In this market once you have identified the style of boat you feel comfortable with your biggest challenge will be buying one that you can get into a condition suitable for your intended passages within your budget, rather than the "perfect" boat that only actually exists in your imagination.
 
Tranona said:
You will get as many answers as there are respondents if only because the number of people who have sailed even one of them in such conditions is limited by the tiny number of each that exist and those who have sailed more than one type vanishingly small.

It really is a non-question that nobody can answer with any authority. The boats were (mostly) designed for cruising in all weathers - or even if not specifically aimed at that kind of use were found to be suitable. That can be said of a huge number of different designs, most of which are not of the long keeled, heavy displacement types. However the latter have their adherents who are prepared to sacrifice fast passage times and voluminous hulls for comfortable motion and rugged build. So if that is what you are looking for then any of the boats you mention will do the job, although having said that apart from the basic hull forms (and even there the Moody is different being fin and skeg) all 4 are very different in other respects.

Look around at the boats people use for ocean sailing and you will see that people choose an enormous range of different types and complete their passages successfully. Choice is very personal, so I suggest you buy a boat you like and feel comfortable with.

It is often said that success in ocean cruising is primarily a function of crew competence in planning and executing rather than choice of boat. Ideally one should gain some experience before committing to a particular boat, but this is often not practical so you have to depend in part on learning from what others have done.

Judging by the price range you seem to be looking at you will be limited to other peoples' cast offs - that is older used boats. In this market once you have identified the style of boat you feel comfortable with your biggest challenge will be buying one that you can get into a condition suitable for your intended passages within your budget, rather than the "perfect" boat that only actually exists in your imagination.
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The moody seems to be a long keel & skeg, so yes not a full keel.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/carbineer-44-moody

My question was in regard to the E37 & S40, which seem to have almost identical shapes below the waterline, but one flush decked similar to a Tradewind 35 considered by many on here to be an excellent seaboat, against the Salar 40 wheelhouse/prominent upperworks type. Yes it is a personal choice, but which would you feel more comfortable sailing offshore in heavy seas/weather?
 
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